From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 107f24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid107f24,public X-Google-Thread: f4fd2,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gidf4fd2,public X-Google-Thread: 103d24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid103d24,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ea8ea502d35ca2ce X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1164ba,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid1164ba,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 10259a,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid10259a,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-05-11 00:16:22 PST Path: archiver1.sj.google.com!news2.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!freenix!grolier!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!t956379207.demon.co.uk!im From: Iain McNaughton Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.basic,comp.lang.functional,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.perl Subject: Re: Beginner's Language? Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:55:57 +0100 Organization: Glass Bead Associates Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <9cukad$nn68@news-dxb> <9d6b6e$1bt$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <87snihxiwc.fsf@frown.here> <9dbi83$sji$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <87heyu7cqd.fsf@frown.here> <9dc20p$hh15e$1@ID-37382.news.dfncis.de> <9ddhll$b8o@goaway.cc.monash.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: t956379207.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t956379207.demon.co.uk:194.222.110.87 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 989565026 nnrp-10:12679 NO-IDENT t956379207.demon.co.uk:194.222.110.87 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 S Xref: archiver1.sj.google.com comp.lang.ada:7379 comp.lang.lisp:9814 comp.lang.smalltalk:9553 comp.lang.functional:5541 comp.lang.scheme:3704 comp.lang.perl:2642 Date: 2001-05-10T09:55:57+01:00 List-Id: Oh, what the heck, here's my two cents: Seems to me that the best language for a beginner is BASIC. I'm quite serious about this. I don't mean Visual Basic, or any of the other recent extensions or amendments to BASIC; I mean original BASIC, as developed at Dartmouth in the 60s. It was developed as a teaching tool, and it has all the main requirements for helping someone with their first steps in programming: it is simple to learn, requires the beginner to understand simple ideas like input and output of data, if-then statements, and for loops. Sure, it's not fancy, and it's certainly not state-of-the-art. But that's not the point. The point is that the first thing a beginner has to do is learn how to think a little more clearly, and solve simple problems in a simple way. BASIC meets these criteria, you can use it as a base for more learning, and it has a large supporting literature for the student and the teacher alike. For the next language, I'd choose Pascal. Wirth envisaged it as a teaching language, and it works as such. After that, you pick the language that the student is going to find most useful in his future life. I await my flaming with interest ! Iain McNaughton. > >Which is precisely why my preferred first language is something more like >Haskell. If the student is already familiar with mathematical notation, >Haskell comes naturally. Rather than spending brainshare on learning >an unfamiliar syntax (and let's face it, Lisp/Scheme has an unfamiliar >syntax, even if it is a simple one), the student can spend their energy >on learning programming. > >Cheers, >Andrew Bromage P.S. Andrew, I don't think Haskell is a good idea as a first teaching language, precisely for the reasons you mention: it's too close to mathematics, and thus *too far* from the way that most computer languages work. -- Iain McNaughton