From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 111d6b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid111d6b,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 10d15b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid10d15b,public X-Google-Thread: 1094ba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1094ba,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,8775b19e3c68a5dc X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: rudejohn@ptd.net (John G.) Subject: Re: Philosophers Date: 1998/01/24 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 318783519 References: <67et6o$dql@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <882757510snz@genesis.demon.co.uk> <67ktrg$ibk@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <883319809snz@genesis.demon.co.uk> <68bt2p$d48@lotho.delphi.com> <34a991f0.2379476@news.diac.com> <68dm0i$brv1@news.fiberlink.net> <01bd198f$4050d960$68c8b5cc@dhite.unicomp.net> <34B71B71.1EFDCAD8@ix.netcom.com> <34B8DC0F.BA0554DB@acm.org> <01bd1ebd$8580b9a0$b2684bc2@xzSys> <34BA520B.534F@mail.state.wi.us> <01bd2526$66b70fa0$d6d945cf@juddesk> <34c80bb5.39357256@news.vt.edu> <01bd284c$4b0b4fe0$c0f682c1@xhv46.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:30:26 EST Reply-To: rudejohn@ptd.net (John G.) Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.cobol,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.ada Date: 1998-01-24T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: "Nick Roberts" wrote: >I'm afraid I believe a great many people don't realise that philosophy is >the most 'hard core' field of study there is. As Russell put it, >philosophy is "accurate thinking", which is really exactly what computer >programming is. Give me a bunch of CS PhDs and a philosopher to employ, >and I'd have the philosopher every time. They are the only ones who are >actually taught to _think_ (I really mean this!). Well Nick, judging from the whopping great number of comp groups to which you (and now I) have cross-posted this flamebait, I'd have to say that _your_ thinking is a bit muddled. However, I would like to ask you if you've considered the phenomenon of "Computer Calvinism" which has rooted itself so firmly in the terra of CS. For example, the C language itself was slapped together by a couple of hackers so that they could use an old computer banished to the depths. Since then, C has attained mythological status, requiring the invention of a bible, priests, and a holy church. There are practical benefits to this sort of fanaticism, but the primary goal seems to be to take all the fun out of it! Where in the standard does it mention, or even _hint_, at just having *fun*? It's as though fun is something which should appeal only to lesser beings, while those who desire to join the church of ANSI must treat programming as a soul-consuming avocation. Sure, there are times to be serious. But there should also be time for play, as well. IMNSHO, creativity feeds upon chaos and irrational emotions, not upon endless lists of rules, and rules _about_ the rules. It seems that the desire to impose order upon computer programmers has resulted in programmers wanting to _become_ the computer. Personally, I think computing is a neat trick, and amusing in an odd, obsessive sort of way, but hardly anything to brag about. It's not as though computers represent a step in human evolution. Even the ideas which CS inspires do not appear to represent anything particularly deep. CS borrows heavily from other fields of thought, but gives back little. CS might be said to be a wonderful example of applied mathematics, but has its existence expanded the ability of the human mind? In essence, I think not. Even AI -- as popularly concieved -- seems doomed to linger in the realm of fantasy. Geeze, I better stop or I'll just keep yacking. No doubt I've already been placed on a shitlist or two. Life goes on, eh? Nice talkin' wit' ya, John G.