From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,88ed72d98e6b3457 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-11-02 17:07:21 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!63.218.45.11.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:07:19 -0600 Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:07:17 -0500 From: "Robert I. Eachus" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Standard Library Interest? References: <3F7F760E.2020901@comcast.net> <3F8035B0.7080902@noplace.com> <3F816A35.4030108@noplace.com> <3F81FBEC.9010103@noplace.com><6Ingb.30667$541.13861@nwrdny02.gnilink.net><3F82B4A4.5060301@noplace.com><3F82F527.3020101@noplace.com> <3FA5880E.5020104@noplace.com> In-Reply-To: <3FA5880E.5020104@noplace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.34.214.193 X-Trace: sv3-o7apRSqb0XnNzupI5vp/1PcHn9u7ISz9HS08loha8OdA2gOFCM5fVYEvZkXWUuxDec8oS3JrhvVClTR!sN9JOgn5uV2z/95Q8zyJjZuzh55ygEAOmCGO0JBncdIZQ68wKGwU/E82B+r0gA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:1941 Date: 2003-11-02T20:07:17-05:00 List-Id: Marin David Condic wrote: > Perhaps some other vendors may come out with a different answer, but it > isn't looking like they want to start jumping on the bandwagon, does it? > It wouldn't much matter *how* it got built (all-volunteer or some mix of > funding, from some TBD sources, etc.) The interest level from the > vendors is asymptotically approaching zero as far as I can tell. > So maybe a library is a bad idea. (I don't think so) If so, then I hope > the vendors or ARG can come up with some *other* idea that is going to > generate some new interest in Ada. Why is it I can hear Danny DiVito in > the background reciting his speech from "Other People's Money": "I'm > sure at one time there must have been hundreds of companies out there > making buggy whips...." (Substitute "Ada Compilers" for "Buggy Whips" ;-) I think that in one sense asking the Ada compiler vendors is necessary. But in another it is irrelevant. If we know what users want and provide it, the compiler vendors will be asked by THEIR customers to provide and support it. If the end users don't want it, won't use it, or can't use it, then this whole effort is a waste of time. Of course, to some extent compiler vendors are Ada programmers/users, and they are in touch with their customers and their needs. Some years ago, I worked out the right solution--form an Ada software engineering guild, or for that matter a software engineer's guild, and one of the functions of the guild would be to provide and support a library that could be used by its members. (Including corporate members.) If you could get the system to insist on only using guild licensed programmers in the correct disciplines, and guild software engineers on certain types of projects this would finally give software engineering a realistic model to work with. Anyone who really is a software engineer not a glorified programmer, knows that the only way software engineering is taught is not in school but by mentoring. And most corporations don't have a mechanism for recognizing mentoring effort, and people who have in effect graduated from apprentice to journeyman, or from journeyman to master. But all that is way beyond what we can accomplish here. But I do feel that doing the registry right will give us both a better idea of what exists and a way to track what is used or wanted. Finally, note that once we do get a group well organized to create a common Ada library that will be used, we can survey both c.l.a and SIGAda to find out what people think they want--and what they currently use or have used, etc.