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From: stefan-lucks@see-the.signature
Subject: REAL (was: Verified compilers?)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:14:05 +0100
Date: 2012-03-14T12:14:05+01:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1203141202570.28027@medsec1.medien.uni-weimar.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4f6063b7$0$6642$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012, Georg Bauhaus wrote:

> Side note: WRT finiteness, language designers have made one
> particular mistake again and again, following a convention,
> by telling programmers about some type called REAL. The set
> of supposed real numbers that programmers have heard about
> before, in math lessons, is not finite [...]
> 
> What the language designers usually mean, though, is some finite
> Fraction_with_Split_Shifting thing, having infinitesimally
> little to do with the reals. Consequence: an infinite supply
> of surprises, cause by the name REAL.

In general, floating point numbers are meant to approximate the real 
numbers (in the mathematical sense). Unfortunately, most programmers have 
been educated just to apply floating point arithmetic in their programs, 
expecting the result to be close enough to the "real result".

Hardly anyone cares enough to analyze how the error grows from operation 
to operation. Hardly anyone even bothers to define how close the result 
should to be -- which depends on the application at hand, of course. 

And, to be honest, that approach works well most of the time. Which is 
precisely the reason why wrong results (= approximations not close enough 
to the real result) come as *surprises* ...


-- 
---- Stefan.Lucks (at) uni-weimar.de, University of Weimar, Germany  ----
    <http://www.uni-weimar.de/cms/medien/mediensicherheit/home.html>
------  I  love  the  taste  of  Cryptanalysis  in  the  morning!  ------




  reply	other threads:[~2012-03-14 11:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-02-21 15:42 Verified compilers? Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-02-24  1:41 ` Shark8
2012-02-24  8:52   ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-02-24 17:36   ` Peter C. Chapin
2012-03-06  1:27 ` Randy Brukardt
2012-03-06 17:24   ` Shark8
2012-03-06 17:43     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-06 19:03       ` Shark8
2012-03-07  5:33       ` Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)
2012-03-07  9:12         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-07 17:49           ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-07 20:17             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-07 23:28               ` Usefulness of Formal Notions in Programming (was: Verified compilers?) Georg Bauhaus
2012-03-08  9:24                 ` Usefulness of Formal Notions in Programming Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-08 10:30                   ` Nasser M. Abbasi
2012-03-08 12:37                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-08  0:42               ` Verified compilers? Randy Brukardt
2012-03-08  9:25                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-08 18:10                   ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-08 20:41                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-08 18:02               ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-08 20:40                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-09  0:44                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-03-09 22:13                   ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-10 10:36                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-10 20:35                       ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-11  9:47                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-11 22:22                           ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-12  5:12                             ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-12  9:43                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-14  8:36                               ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-14  9:24                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-03-14 11:14                                   ` stefan-lucks [this message]
2012-03-14 12:59                                     ` REAL Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-14 13:30                                       ` REAL Georg Bauhaus
2012-03-14 13:51                                         ` REAL Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-14 20:37                                           ` REAL Brian Drummond
2012-03-14 21:52                                             ` REAL Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-14 13:52                                         ` REAL georg bauhaus
2012-03-14 17:42                                         ` REAL Jeffrey Carter
2012-03-14 10:14                                 ` Verified compilers? Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-14 20:13                                   ` Niklas Holsti
2012-03-11 10:55                         ` Georg Bauhaus
2012-03-10 13:46                     ` Brian Drummond
2012-03-07  1:00     ` Randy Brukardt
2012-03-07 12:42   ` Stuart
2012-03-08  1:06     ` Randy Brukardt
2012-03-08  9:04       ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2012-03-08  9:37         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-08 11:23           ` Simon Wright
2012-03-08 12:27             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2012-03-08 10:23         ` Brian Drummond
2012-03-08 23:38           ` Bill Findlay
2012-03-09 13:56             ` Brian Drummond
2012-03-09 14:43               ` Shark8
2012-03-09 21:51                 ` Brian Drummond
2012-03-09 15:49               ` Bill Findlay
2012-03-09 20:34                 ` Brian Drummond
2012-03-09 19:40               ` Jeffrey Carter
2012-03-09 20:39                 ` Brian Drummond
2012-03-09 23:59               ` phil.clayton
2012-03-08 15:23         ` Peter C. Chapin
2012-03-09  2:04         ` Randy Brukardt
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