From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,3885b7fd66a1db28 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-12-21 10:07:30 PST From: "Britt Snodgrass" References: Subject: Re: Why is Ada NOT a good choice for a beginner to programming? Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 11:48:45 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada NNTP-Posting-Host: cdrrdslgw3poolc161.cdrr.uswest.net 65.100.16.161 Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!feed.news.msn.com!cpimsnntpa03.news.msn.com Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:32165 Date: 2002-12-21T11:48:45-06:00 List-Id: "David Wright" wrote in message news:au0nld$b0$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au... > Hello from DownUnder... > > I would appreciate some general advice from experienced Ada programmers, > particularly (but not only) those using it as a teaching vehicle for > Computer Science courses etc. > > As a young adult investigating learning programming as a hobby > (self-teaching on PC, Windows 98), I've been lurking for a while and have > looked at some relevant Ada sites. >From this statement I assume you have looked at some of the following: http://www.adapower.com http://www.adaic.org http://www.acm.org/sigada ftp://ftp.cs.nyu.edu/pub/gnat/3.15p/winnt/ http://www.usafa.af.mil/dfcs/bios/mcc_html/adagide.html http://www.rrsoftware.com http://www.aonix.com/content/products/objectada/windows.html http://libre.act-europe.fr/GtkAda/ http://www.cmis.brighton.ac.uk/staff/je/jewl/ http://www.crystalcode.com/codemage/MainMenu/Coding/Ada/IntroducingAda.php >My purpose is to gradually and thoroughly > learn computing constructs and ultimately to apply same and see how far I > can take this interest. I'm not making a career of it... well not yet > anyway. > > To this end, I obviously need to commit to a particular language programming > environment (not necessarily a GUI development interface); yet there seem to > be several hurdles to even this crucial initial step. It seems that there > are three essential threshold requirements, namely: > > 1) A free (preferably) downloadable programming environment that is installs > without fuss and instability GNAT, AdaGIDE, and ObjectAda SE are free and install easily. There is also a free subset of the CLAW GUI library available. > 2) Good online and hardcopy support (tutorials and textbooks) for a BEGINNER > PROGRAMMER per se, not just beginners with that LANGUAGE There are many Ada 95 textbooks available, must published in 1995 thru 1999. For beginners I recommend "Rendezvous with Ada 95" by David Naiditch or one of the Ada 95 college texts by Feldman, McCormick, or Barnes. See http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada95books.html and http://www.adaic.org/free/freebook.html > 3) An online community that has a tradition of supporting such beginners to > programming. comp.lang.ada provides this (as long as you are not simply trying to get us to do your homework). > > BASIC and PASCAL very!! clearly fulfill these criteria and I am tempted to > start with one of them. However the posts of Richard Riehle and others on > this and other newsgroups speak so highly of Ada's functionality and syntax > clarity that it's hard to overlook this as a possibility. > > On the other hand, and with the best will in the world, I can't see that Ada > satisfies ANY of the three criteria above, though I am willing/wanting to be > convinced otherwise. > > Specific Questions: > 1) Am I not giving Ada sufficient credit for being a suitable entry-level > language for a BEGINNING PROGRAMMER? No you are not. Although Ada supports many advanced features, it is easy to pick out a simple, PASCAL-like subset and start with that. I think its a particulary good first languge. Its not case sensitive and ugly like Java. > > 2) Would you recommend that I immerse myself in either BASIC (QBasic) or > PASCAL (Borland TP7) for a couple of years (yes, OK... forget BASIC ;D) and > THEN springboard to Ada? No, start with Ada and look at other languages later (they may not impress you much by then). I came to Ada after using Basic, Fortran 77, and C. I'd now like to learn a "functional" language for comparison. > > 3) If you were to opt for Ada as an entry point, which particular dialect or > environment would be the most user friendly from a set up and > 'learning-the-fundamentals' point of view. Since I have a choice, I'd like > an Ada encounter that is a FUN experience, rather than marred by > gratuitious, buggy FRUSTRATION (which is why I'm not keen on beginning with > C, C++ or Java, even though others do). Start with both GNAT 3.15p for Windows and Aonix ObjectAda 7.2.2 Special Edition. Ada is a relatively picky language (intentionally so) but GNAT provides great error messages. AdaGIDE is a free Ada editor for use with GNAT. ObjectAda provides a very good Ada editor and provides a second compiler so you can try your programs with two different compilers. > > Please accept that I am not trying to offend anyone; it's just that this > initial phase is somewhat forbidding to a neophyte and I need to be a > critical, hype-detecting, cynic ;D. > > Many thanks in advance. You're welcome. > > David. > Britt (in Iowa, USA)