From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,e6d1607a5397de6b X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2000-10-30 14:17:18 PST Path: supernews.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.swbell.net!nnrp1.sbc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Pat Rogers" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <39FDE9E4.35F615A6@netwood.net> Subject: Re: Is the Ada World Embarrassed by the Defense Industry? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:17:15 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.191.184.67 X-Complaints-To: abuse@swbell.net X-Trace: nnrp1.sbc.net 972944237 208.191.184.67 (Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:17:17 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:17:17 CST Organization: SBC Internet Services Xref: supernews.google.com comp.lang.ada:1646 Date: 2000-10-30T16:17:15-06:00 List-Id: "E. Robert Tisdale" wrote in message news:39FDE9E4.35F615A6@netwood.net... > Ken Garlington wrote: > > > While looking at the SIGAda 2000 web site, > > I notice that the role of Ada in defense applications is minimized > > (even after the explicit requirements in this area were dropped). > > For example, the list of "recent" successful Ada-based systems > > includes only commercial projects, some five years old, > > although one of the most recent Ada success stories occurred > > just a few days ago (October 24). I also notice that > > an interview last year with Tucker Taft included the statement, > > "These days we're focused mostly on commercial success stories..." > > I can understand wanting to promote commercial applications, > > but isn't this going a little overboard? > > Apparently, national defense, and the U.S. Navy in particular, > has finally turned toward Commercial Off-The-Shelf (COTS) > solutions after encouraging a commercial computer industry > for the past 50 years. The DoD is institutionally clueless about software development. (Oh sure there are plenty of bright, capable people involved; but as an organization it is lost.) They went from a simple language policy ("use Ada for the things that make sense") to a laughable one that requires good will on the part of their contractors ("do a reasonable language trade-off study including Ada"). What a sad joke! > It is possible to implement reliable applications > in other programming languages through diligence, > discipline and exhaustive testing. It just costs more. > One can only assume that the commercial developer > weighed these costs against all of the other costs > relevant to application program development when > they decided which programming language(s) to use. ROTFL Thanks -- that (and the lack of a smiley) made my day! > The problem for the military > is to test and evaluate all of these applications > and select the best value. > > If application program source codes are transferred > to the military, they must find and/or train programmers > to modify and maintain that source code. > It is easier to find and train C and C++ programmers > than it is to find and train Ada programmers today > so there is a strong incentive to prefer C or C++ over Ada. References please, otherwise this propagates myth. IMHO training Ada people is easy. Finding good Ada people is easy if you pay well. > A lot can be done to incorporate safety and reliability > into C and C++ compilers and class libraries > but these languages are inherently unsafe > and there is very little that can be done about it > without changing the languages themselves. I don't see how the first part of that sentence agrees with the last. (And I agree with the last part.) --- Patrick Rogers Consulting and Training in: http://www.classwide.com Deadline Schedulability Analysis progers@classwide.com Software Fault Tolerance (281)648-3165 Real-Time/OO Languages Adam ... does not deserve all the credit; much is due to Eve, the first woman, and Satan, the first consultant. Mark Twain