From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,707ffbf6ec9d1855 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!4988f22a!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <20051222102521644-0600@news.airmail.net> <20051222152554655-0600@news.airmail.net> Subject: Re: SBIRS, Ada and Ignorance X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.134.132.176 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net 1135296749 ST000 70.134.132.176 (Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:12:29 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:12:29 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCA[S@QBTLYYZH@^SXBUSXB@DTMNHWB_EYLJZ]BGIELNVUEAE[YETZPIWWI[FCIZA^NBFXZ_D[BFNTCNVPDTNTKHWXKB@X^B_OCJLPZ@ET_O[G\XSG@E\G[ZKVLBL^CJINM@I_KVIOR\T_M_AW_M[_BWU_HFA_]@A_A^SGFAUDE_DFTMQPFWVW[QPJN Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 00:12:29 GMT Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:6976 Date: 2005-12-23T00:12:29+00:00 List-Id: Since my name (creatively spelled, but I think Robert meant me) came up in the discussion below, I will research the matter and see if I can get an email off to the right people from my DoD account. I'll probably get myself in trouble, but it won't be the first time. As to the term "bozo," none of the USAF people involved deserve this appellation. They are simply reacting to the ignorance about Ada that seems to prevail throughout the larger software community. My experience with the USAF decision-makers is that they are doing their best to make responsible decisions on behalf of the National Defense. They are being misinformed by contractors whose self-interest sometimes preempts what ought to be their better judgement. I must say that I have heard high-ranking DoD people denigrate Ada based on their own experience. One Admiral spoke to a group about how hard it was to teach people Ada in his command. He talked of the credentials of the person hired to do the teaching and noted that, "even this person, with many years of experience in computer science," could not make Ada clear to the students. There are some unique differences in Ada from other languages. Unless we make those differences clear the students will be discouraged from using it. Too often the language is taught by people who do themselves understand it. To be fair, the same is true of much of what passes for C++ instruction. The difference is that C++ looks like C and it gets a lot of good press. This, in spite of its being one of the most error-prone languages ever to be used by anyone. I'll do what I can. Richard Riehle (note the correct spelling of my name) "Robert Love" wrote in message news:20051222152554655-0600@news.airmail.net... > In Jeffrey R. > Carter wrote: > > Robert Love wrote: > > > >> Lord, there is so much wrong here. Where to start. Is it even worth > >> it to try and educate the Air Force? I suppose I'll try and write > >> one of these bozos once I calm down but I would say this is a huge > >> slam against our favorite language. > > > > If we all knew how to contact these bozos, we could all write them. > > That might be more impressive than just a message from you. > > And I'm just a bozo to the Air Force brass. I wonder if we have a > senior statesman who could get their attention. Richard Rheile? Tucker > Taft? Damn, do any Congressional Medal of Honor winners program in Ada? > > I did write a sincere, polite letter (postal, not e-mail) to the > Secretary but I don't expect it will get past his layer of filters. I > tried to refute his points and stressed the need for good design and > software development processe. I concluded that he should have the AF > Academy software experts or other independent group investigate the real > reason why the software was a failure.