From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10261c,90121986704b5776 X-Google-Attributes: gid10261c,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,4873305131bf4d94 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,4873305131bf4d94 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,4873305131bf4d94 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 10c950,90121986704b5776 X-Google-Attributes: gid10c950,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,4873305131bf4d94 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public From: billg@jk.pst.com Subject: Re: Your english sucks, mine is better. Date: 1997/11/24 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 292291283 References: <34557f2b.1934172@news.mindspring.com> Organization: IDT Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.pascal.ansi-iso,comp.lang.pascal.misc Date: 1997-11-24T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article , ark@research.att.com says... > In article , wrote: > > > No you can't. You are in their control and not the other way around. > > You are a reactionary to things people post perhaps to get a particular > > effect. A lot of the posts in newsgroups are simply lies and marketing > > tactics (lies again). Not everyone feels that this medium requires > > honesty, integrity, ethics etc. The internet on one hand is a sesspool. > > You're quite right -- writings will not prove someone's honesty by themselves. > It's like black-box software testing -- it can never prove the absence of bugs. > > On the other hand, black-box software testing can often reveal the > presence of bugs, and reading what people have written can often > reveal that there would be no point even in interviewing them if they > were to come looking for a job. > -- > --Andrew Koenig > ark@research.att.com > http://www.research.att.com/info/ark > That's my edge in hiring good people and getting them to enjoy their stay. I don't rely on external sources to determine the value of a person. I give them the option to move on from the past (instead of requiring them to suppress their personalities). You've already defined the "us vs. them" mentality. Your starting point is one of distrust and therefore you have already limited the potential relationship severly. This is very fragile ground. If you are not a believer in people, then get ready for union negotiating because that is the outcome of communication breakdown. The minute you do that (question someone's integrity), you no longer have a trusting relationship. Actually, I find that most people with "a past" usually have a reason for it that was beyond their control. And yes that reason may be misunderstanding of their needs and modes of operation (not "playing the game" is supposedly a big black mark for some). Many times it is failure to follow false-leadership (the management game). Show me a "difficult" employee and I'll show you someone with capabilities beyond the average and probably higher ethical standards--not to say these people won't be tough on you when you break the unwritten rules. You just have to understand them. Show me the non-game players, I want to work with them! 10% of the pop.? 2%? hmmm... I understand that most will not be able to recognize people as they really are and their potential value in their lifetimes though. It is indeed a gift! Yes, if you want game-players and oppressors and people who unethically manipulate, look for a history of rising through the ranks of political (most large) companies. To find the leaders, look for those who didn't. Oops! I gave away a trade secret! None of this or any other post was directed toward any particular person or poster. Certainly your leadership in your trade is unquestionable and hopefully you will stay out of the politics as we (the productive side of us) need non-political elements to learn from! billg