From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 109fba,baaf5f793d03d420 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: fc89c,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gidfc89c,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,6154de2e240de72a X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,97188312486d4578 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: jsa@alexandria (Jon S Anthony) Subject: Re: What's the best language to start with? [was: Re: Should I learn C or Pascal?] Date: 1996/09/10 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 179777394 sender: news@organon.com (news) references: <01bb9a1e$24c669e0$32ee6fcf@timhome2> <50p68s$cpi@zeus.orl.mmc.com> organization: Organon Motives, Inc. newsgroups: comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.ada Date: 1996-09-10T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article <51368e$6ir@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au> ok@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes: > rgilbert@unconfigured.xvnews.domain (Bob Gilbert) writes: > > >I suspect our definitions of procedural vs non-procedural (e.g. object > >oriented) views are not the same. Non-procedural views do not imply > >"instantaneous" algorithms, the non-existence of a time axis, or whatever. > > It strikes me as a very strange use of language to call object-oriented > programming (of the kind exemplified by Simula 67, Smalltalk, C++, Ada 95, > CLOS, Eiffel, Self, Cecil, NewtonScript, &c) "non-procedural". They are > about as thoroughly procedural as you can get. Exactly. A point I have tried to point out from time to time in c.o. All to no avail. In fact, I've actually been flamed for this "indiscretion" as being "anti-oop". Go figure. What was that line from Schiller? "Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain". > The opposite of "procedural" is not "OOP" but "declarative". > Declarative languages include Haskell, Clean, Mercury, and perhaps Goedel, > which I don't know all that well. Maybe Sisal at all, but I don't know it. > In those languages the programmer has no idea and no reason to care in > what order operations are performed; any order the compiler chooses will Hmmm, I am somewhat surprised that you of all people would not include Prolog in that list. What's the scoop? /Jon -- Jon Anthony Organon Motives, Inc. 1 Williston Road, Suite 4 Belmont, MA 02178 617.484.3383 jsa@organon.com