From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,42490cad53ee37fa X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!d9c68f36!not-for-mail From: Marin David Condic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: NOACE- End of the road for Ada? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:42:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.165.14.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net 1110994979 209.165.14.147 (Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:42:59 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:42:59 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9508 Date: 2005-03-16T17:42:59+00:00 List-Id: Alexander E. Kopilovich wrote: > > Here you assume that everyone who has prudent interest in aiding Ada can see > in one's neighbourhood some software development using Ada in some problem > domain. > I think I'm assuming that if you were developing software in any language for any particular domain, you'd see a bunch of tools sitting around you. Development tools, related libraries, other applications, etc. Chances are, if all those tools/libraries/related applications are developed in C, work with C or are simply oriented toward C, that you'd be fighting against the tide to use - say - Smalltalk. Even something as simple as a configuration management tool can discourage development in other languages. I've seen some that basically say "If you're tracking C code, I'll do this job and that thing and this other spiffy little task, but if you're any other language, you get just plain vanilla..." My point being that if there were similar support structure in some problem space that was oriented toward Ada, written in Ada, compatible with Ada, etc., it would make Ada the natural choice. One would then be spitting into the wind to use something like C. > > OK, Simulink. If I understand it properly, Simulink is a package that comes > with MatLab (or there is another Simulink?). Search in Google quickly shows > that there are some products, which support Ada with Simulink (at least those > from universities). Probably you know or even use those products, and came to > conclusion that they all are deficient comparing with Simulink support tools > for C++. > Q: What does Simulink generate? A: C You can fight it, but all the pressure from every angle will be to utilize C because that's what Simulink generates. Add to that the fact that the whole model of the way these sorts of tools design & operate is a kind of early vintage Fortran view of the universe and even if it *did* generate Ada, you're at best going to get Adatran code. How does Ada shine in any way if all you get is a stack of global variables and a bunch of subroutines to operate on them? Its fundamentally no better than the C you get already - so why spit into the wind? You even have to fight against Ada in some ways to make it work like Fortran/C so it only makes the job harder. If there were a Simulink-like thing that was modeled with Ada in mind as the target language, it might have significant advantages *to the Simulink modeler-guy*. Right now, the guy generating the model has no reason to want to use Ada and every reason not to want to. From his view, all he sees is the Simulink model and attempting to generate any code in any language other than exactly what he is getting now (C) is only a pain in the ass and of no particular advantage. If, OTOH, there was a Simulink-like modeling tool that took advantage of Ada-ish concepts - expressed things in terms of Ada constructs, for example - then the model builder would a) have the advantage of better abstraction, reuse of model components, better up-front consistency checks, etc., and b) would start having natural reasons to prefer Ada code generation. This is just one example - and one that isn't elaborated on in great detail. Just think of similar things in different problem domains. People use CAD/CAM packages for mechanical design. Do they do any kind of code generation for modeling purposes? What do they generate? Is there some advantage to making the CAD/CAM tool express things in Ada-ish ways? (packages? strong typing? tasking? object oriented? etc?) What about math and statistics packages? What about network applications? All these things (and more) have a bunch of surrounding tools, software libraries, related applications, etc., and even if Ada can play nicely with other languages, it is inherently swimming against the tide. If Ada adopted one of these areas in some respect and built up that infrastructure, it would have Coolness Factor by providing capabilities not usually seen and would be providing the guy who has a job to do with incentives to want to use Ada. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/NSFrames.htm Send Replies To: m o d c @ a m o g c n i c . r "'Shut up,' he explained." -- Ring Lardner ======================================================================