From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,e82ea8a472e88bd7 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news2.google.com!news3.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 07:32:30 -0500 From: "Chip and Allie Orange" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada References: <1145343273.557453.50910@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <15rtl3-d12.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com> Subject: Re: ada IDE Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:32:30 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.35.222.233 X-Trace: sv3-RVnBzcS+uEjzef6WXyk8JfMKZocmdJAP/lRsXv3QktMLJoPPKWkVV15gPz2bpy1pHigoCxRM397fELR!rkukwm98ueSZ7FRQ7SwdzvkLZxASLVxuYZzPagFw3ZfSeP1CX9TKqyJ2NHdXRKflHxMcK2hYsAJD!qX8DdY9j8hXq5Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Xref: g2news2.google.com comp.lang.ada:4751 Date: 2006-06-12T08:32:30-04:00 List-Id: "Jeffrey Creem" wrote in message news:15rtl3-d12.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com... > Chip and Allie Orange wrote: >> "Jeffrey Creem" wrote in message >> news:da9gh3-p7k.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com... >> >>>Ananth the Boss wrote: >>> >>>>we are involved in development of safety critical software for flight >>>>apps. can ny one say which is the best IDE for ADA for development of >>>>flight software >>>> >>> >>>If you are doing safety critical software (assuming you mean something >>>like DO-178b level a or b) then the IDE is really secondary to the >>>compiler/runtime. Pick that first and it will help guide you to an IDE. >>>You probably can't pick the compiler/runtime (or perhaps OS) until you >>>know what your hardware platform is (unless there is some flexibility >>>there). >>> >>>If you select something like Greenhills Ada with the Integrity OS then it >>>would be silly to consider GPS. >>> >>>There is really not enough in the question to respond to this all that >>>clearly. >>> >>> >>>The high level choices will be something from >>> >>>Greenhills/Greenhills >>>www.ghs.com (perhaps integrity (OS) with AdaMULT (compiler). >>>or >>> >>>WindRiver/AdaCore >>>www.wrs.com with www.gnat.com (vxWorks with the ARINC 653 with GNAT). >>> >>>or >>> >>>BAE Systems/DDC-I >>> >>>http://platformsolutions.na.baesystems.com:8080/CsLeos/CsLEOS.jsp >>> >>>or >>> >>>Aonix/Aonix >>> >>>http://www.aonix.com/objectada.html >>> >>> >>>There might also be someting in the lynxos/GNAT cagegory to consider..not >>>sure. >>> >>>In any case, these seem to be the big players in the area. >>> >> >> I'm just learning Ada for some after-hours programming (not my day job). >> I have a relative who works for the IBM/Rational group which puts out the >> Ada Apex system. >> >> Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't they make your list? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Chip >> >> >> > > Good question. Truthfully, I probably should have included them. > > I still use Apex in my day job (an older version of it)..There certainly > are some nice features about it even though (at least the version I use) > is really starting to show its age it is interesting that it has taken > many years for other languages/tools/ide's to catch up to the level of > integration that Apex had more than 10 years ago. > > So, there certainly are some positives for this tool suite. > > As for the negatives that probably partially led to me just forgetting to > list them... > > It appears that every time you contact ibm/rational sales to buy a tool > they want to "craft a solution" for you that involves both expensive > tools, expensive support services and a pile of things you don't want or > need. > > > For example, take a look at the "off the shelf" options for Apex > > http://www3.software.ibm.com/ibmdl/pub/software/rational/web/datasheets/ada.pdf > > There are four choices. > > The base edition is not right for the original question since one can > reasonably assume the need of a cross compiler (because this is embedded > flight software). > > The "Embedded Developer" edition would just about fit the bill, but it is > listed as "Solaris" only in the PDF file. This is generally a code word > for "dead product we only still list because we still can manage to pawn > off licenses on some legacy customer". > > Each of the other two versions have "Enterprise" in the title. This is a > code word for "big expensive tool that includes a lot of stuff that you > probably don't want but allows is to bundle things to prevent you from > justifying the use of the tools you really want from a different vendor". > > In this case, it means it includes Rational Rose, TestMate, etc. (And of > course Rose is slowly heading out since there are newer IBM design tools). > > > There are probably projects/companies for which this approach to selling > tools works out really well. For me, it seems like their Ada products (or > truthfully any of their single products) get lost in the noise of the > "craft a solution" approach that the sales staff shows up with when > talking about tools. > > Here is another example. Interested in trials/beta's of the software. > > Go here > http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/home.jsp?s=p > > Hmm. No apex, no Ada, nothing embedded at all. But if you are maintaining > a website there is all sorts of stuff here.. I wonder where people get > the idea that there is no commitment from the vendor to support the > product...must just be me. > > Now again, to be fair, this probably has as much to do with the types of > customers that want those tools as it does with the commitment tool any > particular tool... > > Finally, here is the last reason. > > Go to www.ibm.com - See the word Ada on the page...Hmm... Nope. Ok..Big > company, click on software. See the work ada on the page...Nope..Ok big > company. Click on products by category. See the word Ada on the page? > Nope, ok. Lots of tools. Click "Traditional Programming Languages". See > the word Ada on the page? Yes!.. Yippie Got there. Of course, once you > clock the "Learn About" link, the most up to date thing on the page looks > like some announcement about IBM Rational Ada Developer Interface for AXI > which is bindings for X-Windows Motif.....It feels so 90's. > > > Finally, even after a lot of clicking, one never does see any mention of > DO-178B/Ada on any page and remember that was what the original poster was > looking for. > > > Now, compare this to the other vendors I listed. > > www.ghs.com - Ada on front page. DO-178B on front page > > www.gnat.com - Ada allover the front page, new vxWorks on the front page > (Active development). Ada 2006 information on front page (Active > development) safety-critical on front page (original poster question). > do-178b on front page. > > > csLEOS link combined with DDCI-compiler. > Ok. DO-178B on front page of Csleos link (no area but this is the OS > company), Going to the compiler vendor Ada on front page. Safety critical > on front page. > > > Going to Aonix. Ada on front page, DO-178B on front page. > > So, all-in-all I think I stand by my original list which excluded IBM > Apex. If the poster had just asked for "list some Ada IDEs" then maybe I > would have listed them even giving the general concerns I have with the > vendor. > > But given that the original question was safety critical Ada, I think it > was the right choice. > > > Thanks Jeffrey for your thoughts ... Didn't mean to imply any criticism of your list, just needed some education and some opinions from someone not working for a vendor. Chip