From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,583275b6950bf4e6 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-11 16:51:00 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Subject: Re: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) From: Bill Findlay Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Message-ID: References: <9fa75d42.0304230424.10612b1a@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0304240446.493ca906@posting.google.com> <3EA7E0E3.8020407@crs4.it> <9fa75d42.0304240950.45114a39@posting.google.com> <4a885870.0304291909.300765f@posting.google.com> <416273D61ACF7FEF.82C1D1AC17296926.FF0BFD4934A03813@lp.airnews.net> <9fa75d42.0305010621.55e99deb@posting.google.com> <0-WcnWfafqsNpiyjXTWcqw@gbronline.com> <1051804573.732603@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <3EBE9BD4.1050008@attbi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 00:50:00 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.195.75.181 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk 1052697059 80.195.75.181 (Sun, 11 May 2003 23:50:59 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 23:50:59 GMT Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder) Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:37208 Date: 2003-05-12T00:50:00+01:00 List-Id: On 11/5/03 21:11, in article T7yva.16129$rV2.4345@nwrdny01.gnilink.net, "Hyman Rosen" wrote: > Robert I. Eachus wrote: >> Shuffle(Deck, Gen); >> >> It is really, really hard to have bugs in code that is as unsubtle as >> that. And even if the universe changes, the changes are pretty >> localized. For example, it would take just a few minutes to change the >> code to deal Pinochle hands, or even to switch to a Tarot deck. > > I think this is a perfect example of the blind spot of Ada programmers. > You are so enamored of enumerations and perfectly indexed arrays and > lack of buffer overflows that you will probably miss the most likely > and subtle bug of this kind of code, which is that the Shuffle routine > fails to produce each possible permutation with uniform probability! > Hyman, this really is not up to your usual standard. Are you suggesting that programmers who carry the additional burdens of having to simulate enumerations by themselves, ensure perfect indexing by themselves, and check by themselves for buffer overflows, are somehow *more* likely to get the algorithm correct? Come off it! -- Bill-Findlay chez blue-yonder.co.uk ("-" => "")