From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,bc1361a952ec75ca X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-08-31 20:22:39 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!unlnews.unl.edu!newsfeed.ksu.edu!nntp.ksu.edu!news.okstate.edu!not-for-mail From: David Starner Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Progress on AdaOS Date: 1 Sep 2001 02:31:28 GMT Organization: Oklahoma State University Message-ID: <9mpha0$aqm1@news.cis.okstate.edu> References: <3B8FECC4.92C5D589@san.rr.com> Reply-To: dstarner98@aasaa.ofe.org NNTP-Posting-Host: x8b4e5129.dhcp.okstate.edu User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.2 (Linux) Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:12627 Date: 2001-09-01T02:31:28+00:00 List-Id: On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:00:07 GMT, Darren New wrote: > Making a strict separation like that is exactly the kind of thing that > causes mental impedence mismatch. It's the same kind of reasoning that > says "let the language deal with processes, and save threading for a > library." :-) It's also the same kind of reasoning that says "let the language deal with text, and save XML for a library." What should go into the OS or language, and what should be supplied seperately is debated fiercely, but something's are going to have to go out, and some in. > On the other hand, FORTH really *does* use *only* storage elements. That > means no directories and no files. Your disk really is an array of > storage elements. Directories are the responsibility of your code. Is > that really what you want in a kernel? Not having directories in the kernel tends to mean that directories aren't implemented in any coherant standard way. There are coherant standard ways _that are followed consistently_ in how to store data to disk, without it being in the kernel. > And > thinking that knowing that the "type" of the data in the file is > image/gif is vital, but being willing to read the file to find out of > it's GIF87 or GIF89 is OK too doesn't make sense to me. Because whether it's GIF87 or 89 is a mostly irrelevant fact, and there's zero chance of confusing the two once you know it's a GIF file. Some thing much more interesting is whether it's a picture of Robert Dewar or Tucker Taft, but that's something no one's talked about putting in the type. > I think Ada is powerful enough to have such ideas integrated seemlessly. See, Modula-3 did have such ideas seemlessly implemented. Which raises two points: one, it's evidence that there's no need to do it in the kernel, that it can be done in the language or libraries without kernel help. Second, where's Modula-3 today? (Last time I checked, with one maintained compiler, which is a hack on an old version of gcc, and a nearly dead newsgroup.) If this was so important why didn't it succeed, or at least the ideas get put into languages that are used? ABC also had persistant variables; but when Guido von Rossum made Python with ABC in fond memory, he didn't include persistant variables. -- David Starner - dstarner98@aasaa.ofe.org Pointless website: http://dvdeug.dhis.org "I don't care if Bill personally has my name and reads my email and laughs at me. In fact, I'd be rather honored." - Joseph_Greg