From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,be23df8e7e275d73 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-08-03 06:57:33 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!psinet-eu-nl!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!news.pace.co.uk!nh.pace.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Proving Correctness (was Java Portability) Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:43:05 -0400 Organization: Posted on a server owned by Pace Micro Technology plc Message-ID: <9ke9pa$lks$1@nh.pace.co.uk> References: <1Zu77.187$EF5.315498@nnrp1.proxad.net> <9jp5eo$e2b$2@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <9jrdl3$mh2$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <%hb87.917$%w2.3730577@nnrp3.proxad.net> <9jrt62$38t$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B619A6D.5DD6E782@home.com> <3B6636BA.96FD8348@home.com> <9kb3ub$hdo$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <9kchn1$lng$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.170.200.133 X-Trace: nh.pace.co.uk 996846186 22172 136.170.200.133 (3 Aug 2001 13:43:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@news.cam.pace.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 13:43:06 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:11205 Date: 2001-08-03T13:43:06+00:00 List-Id: There is an argument that goes something like this: It doesn't particularly matter *why* people are choosing development environments that have all sorts of integrated tools and it doesn't particularly matter if this is a *good* thing or not. The fact remains that the market is out there buying things like MSVC++, etc. If Ada wants to gain popularity in those markets, it has to come to the table with at least what customers are currently buying. (id est, some kind of IDE that is integrated with source level debugging, a GUI builder, class libraries, etc.) Now that may not be the smart decision for buyers to make and maybe one can suggest to the buyer that it isn't smart and offer some alternative answer. But remember that you do need an alternative answer - I doubt it will fly to say "Go assemble the pieces you want from the Internet and cobble it together for yourself." (At least not in any sort of mass manner. It hasn't so far, has it?) So, IMHO, Ada needs to be more "Customer Centered" and offer the users & potential users the kinds of things they are currently buying. There is a huge cost to an organization to switch from technology they are currently using to something new, so they need to see that they are getting some sort of productivity advantage in doing so. They want to see that they have all the tools they get with their current technology & then some. Lots of developers are being driven by time-to-market and minimal cost solutions because of highly competitive situations. Expecting a large investment in researching the best possible tools, assembling the pieces from a variety of places, gluing them together in some manner and training people to use the cobbled-together pieces is not very attractive when a competitor can come along and say "See? I've got it all in one box and there's a good collection of documents that work your people through how to use it and you're up and running right away." Or we can say "What you want doesn't make sense and when you smarten up, you'll choose Ada" - but that hasn't worked well so far in terms of capturing a large market. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Georg Bauhaus" wrote in message news:9kchn1$lng$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de... > > Yes, I've read his posting. True, if you are or have to be impatient > because of deadlines say, you want a DWIM IDE with much reusable > software and a slot in > it that reads: "Put your needed libraries in here, I'll care > for the rest". Or better, they are already there. > This is important for people who cannot afford reading > documentation accompanying software components, and install after. > They won't buy otherwise. So the Microsoft delusion > technique has caught on. > > I agree that to convince some people it must look like you are > doing profitable work right after the install wizard has > finished it's work. But I doubt this will lead to effective > use of an IDE. Wich is not relevant for some marketing, true. >