From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,be23df8e7e275d73 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-08-02 06:42:36 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!psinet-eu-nl!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!news.pace.co.uk!nh.pace.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Proving Correctness (was Java Portability) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:30:26 -0400 Organization: Posted on a server owned by Pace Micro Technology plc Message-ID: <9kbkll$m73$1@nh.pace.co.uk> References: <1Zu77.187$EF5.315498@nnrp1.proxad.net> <9jp5eo$e2b$2@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <9jrdl3$mh2$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> <%hb87.917$%w2.3730577@nnrp3.proxad.net> <9jrt62$38t$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B619A6D.5DD6E782@home.com> <3B6636BA.96FD8348@home.com> <9k6aug$mtq$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9kb7s9$hr3$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.170.200.133 X-Trace: nh.pace.co.uk 996759029 22755 136.170.200.133 (2 Aug 2001 13:30:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@news.cam.pace.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Aug 2001 13:30:29 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:11078 Date: 2001-08-02T13:30:29+00:00 List-Id: Just for the record, this is not me. The cut you did with my name in it must have come from an earlier message. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Georg Bauhaus" wrote in message news:9kb7s9$hr3$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de... > nicolas wrote: > : "Marin David Condic" a ?crit dans > : le message news: 9k6aug$mtq$1@nh.pace.co.uk... > > : Where are the library components, reuse etc ... ? > > You're not seriously asking this? > > : Some Ada fans seems to deny that, without having written a single big enough > : Windows application, meeting interface requirements of a normal PC user. > > > : They should really try to start from scratch a simple graphical Windows > : application > : really with nothing more that what comes with their compiler, not using > : other tools they spent monthes to find or write themselves. > > 'Monthes' is by far an order of magnitude too large > for the time it took me. > As always, if you start at http://www.adapower.com... > > > : I bet any Java debutant can provide a working application before they have > : made the choice of their GUI ... > > Choosing a GUI is a time consuming procedure if you choose not > by taste, fashion, prestige, or hearsay, but by comparison, > reading docs, feature lists, about extensibility, integration > with 3rd party tools, etc. > So that only shows that IDE can be complex, despite marketing > departement efforts to make it look easy, geared towards the > momentarily lazy, wishfully thinking programmer.. > > > (side note: given many approaches to GUIs, it is > a question whether the choice of "standard" Windows > applications (a very time dependent term in the Windows world :-) > is appropriate for each and every job. See non-standard, but > heavily used mail clients for an example. > (And the ever changing mouse interface to system administration > tasks drives Administrators crazy. I've been told you can get > a nice text driven programmable interface form M$ for some $$$$. :-) > > > : The first thing to do, is starting to aknowledge that people using popular > : languages are not completely stupid, that their concerns are valid ones, > > Yes, valid, but not technical ones for the most part, if you > accept that multi language programs are a reality. As you > implied, it took someone time to find libraries, you find it > inconvenient to not be given beforehand what you might be after, > and more. Indeed if you can chose your tool collection > from various providers, there might be some work ahead, like > configuring a more recent GTK+ in a non-standard directory, > if necessary, say. Tedious. An alternative is an all-in-one > solution from one provider, most likely M$. Good for quick hacks, > and one time products, but, to stress the term "standard" in M$ > universe, for investment in long term projects? > > All these are convenience concerns, aren't they. > > : that there is absolutely no valid reason to miss basic standard tools. > > Could you define this term, please? > > WRT to GUI, there is good and valid reason on the ground > of user interface research (which is an activity not constrained > to the current Windows GUI or to computer science), > and it is done, see touch screens in > shops or train stations. They may or may not be windows like. > > If you restrict Ada programs to "standard > Windows applications" and base your observations cencerning > Ada programming environments on this, > this isn't really a broad base for you arguments? > > -- Georg