From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOTS_OF_MONEY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 107f24,582dff0b3f065a52 X-Google-Attributes: gid107f24,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,bc1361a952ec75ca X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,582dff0b3f065a52 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,582dff0b3f065a52 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-08-01 15:58:54 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!not-for-mail From: cross@augusta.math.psu.edu (Dan Cross) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.functional Subject: Re: How Ada could have prevented the Red Code distributed denial of service attack. Date: 1 Aug 2001 18:58:52 -0400 Organization: Mememememememmeme Message-ID: <9ka1jc$mgd@augusta.math.psu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: augusta.math.psu.edu X-Trace: boatanchor.ems.psu.edu 996706733 25412 146.186.132.2 (1 Aug 2001 22:58:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: security@psu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Aug 2001 22:58:53 GMT Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:11002 comp.lang.c:71453 comp.lang.c++:79191 comp.lang.functional:7123 Date: 2001-08-01T22:58:53+00:00 List-Id: In article , Kaz Kylheku wrote: >>Chain saw guards - not needed, just use them properly! >>Seat belts - not needed, just drive properly! > >Can you drive improperly or saw improperly because of the presence of >safety features? Sure you can! But the incidences of people chopping off their fingers or being thrown through windshields went way down once chainsaw guards and seat belts came into widespread use. >>Languages with checks - not needed - just code properly! > > [...] > Hmm, I sort of read your note as, ``well, these things don't prevent all errors, so why bother with them?'' Well, nothing prevents all errors, but Chris Torek was spot on with his analogy with locks. A small lock isn't going to stop a professional thief with lock pick tools, but does that mean we should throw away all the locks we use? Personally, anything that allows me to do away the minutia that one has to keep track of when programming in a language like C is a good thing. If I can push some of the effort in that arena onto the language and runtime system, that's a big win. Once again, it comes back to picking the right tool for the job. When I need to worry about the minutia (ie, in an operating system), C is right there for me. When I don't, I have other options. - Dan C.