From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00, PP_MIME_FAKE_ASCII_TEXT autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: 103376,be23df8e7e275d73 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-17 07:04:35 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!psinet-eu-nl!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!news.pace.co.uk!nh.pace.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: An Ada IDE and discussions Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:26:31 -0400 Organization: Posted on a server owned by Pace Micro Technology plc Message-ID: <9j1ee8$258$1@nh.pace.co.uk> References: <0zS27.187213$DG1.31590366@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com> <3B4FEFDE.10E7B423@snafu.de> <9iuvsd$361$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9j12ic$bvi$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.170.200.133 X-Trace: nh.pace.co.uk 995376392 2216 136.170.200.133 (17 Jul 2001 13:26:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@pace.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jul 2001 13:26:32 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:10062 Date: 2001-07-17T13:26:32+00:00 List-Id: Well, its not *my* product and I don't earn a living directly or indirectly from it so I'm more on the "customer" side of things. It kind of comes down to this: If I'm trying to build a GUI, I have alternatives as to what tools are available to do that job. If someone has a GUI builder out there that is well documented and includes all the info I need to use it versus (maybe a perfectly wonderful) tool that "hides its light under a bushel basket" by not having all the info one needs to effectively use it, which way do you think I'm likely to go? I don't mean to criticise the guys building GtkAda and say that their tool is doodoo. I've driven the tool enough to know that it does seem to work and does provide a means of building GUIs that can be used on different platforms. That's an achievement. However, as an "Art Critic" I'm picking on what I perceive to be a certain lack of documentation that I believe is needed to explain how to use the tool. I think the developers should take that in the spirit in which it is offered - a helpful criticism that might just serve to making a better & more successful product. I've done GUI building on the Windows platform and you're right about wanting things to look familiar. I'm willing to accept that the GtkAda GUI builder operates on different concepts and that I would have to learn how to develop using those concepts. That's where I'm saying there is a missing layer of documentation. If a toolmaker wants to build something that operates differently from what the end-user is used to seeing, maybe that is a good thing, but to do so implies that the toolmaker is going to have to help the customer transition to the new paradigm. Otherwise, we stick to what we know... :-) MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ "nicolas" wrote in message news:9j12ic$bvi$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net... > "Emmanuel Briot" a �crit dans le message news: > m3r8vg5778.fsf@lyon.act-europe.fr... > > > More likely you missed what Marin said just a few lines below : > "(since I have to actually earn a living doing something that doesn't > involve playing with things like Gnat & Gtk)" > > Honestly I don't think you can have the slightest hope to expand (and even > maintain) Ada use, > if you are not really competitive on Win32 platform whatever you think about > it. > That means that compiler vendors must provide everything so that potential > users won't see any regression or any increased complexity when they try Ada > for the first time. > More than that, they must really see benefits. > It includes debuggers, IDE, GUI (as intuitive and easy for Windows > developpers, as what they are used to) > > I have no illusion about the feelings of a programmer coming to Ada and Java > for the first time, > and tries to build a basic application in both languages. > You cannot rely only on people who are already convinced that they have to > use Ada (Especially if they are not building Win32 applications) > > >