From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,7bcba1db9ed24fa7 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-10 15:03:25 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!psinet-eu-nl!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!news.pace.co.uk!nh.pace.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Death by analogy Part 2 (was Re: is ada dead?) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:26:13 -0400 Organization: Posted on a server owned by Pace Micro Technology plc Message-ID: <9ifrtn$rq4$1@nh.pace.co.uk> References: <3B4B3432.5BAFE9E1@easystreet.com> <3B4B4BF9.12C1E8C@lmco.com> <3B4B613B.25659225@mediaone.net> <3B4B6F44.8C7CC353@easystreet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.170.200.133 X-Trace: nh.pace.co.uk 994800375 28484 136.170.200.133 (10 Jul 2001 21:26:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@pace.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Jul 2001 21:26:15 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9744 Date: 2001-07-10T21:26:15+00:00 List-Id: I'd agree that the "go become a supported user and all your troubles will vanish" response to problems with a compiler are not going to get very far if the support contract starts becomming way too expensive for the average well-paid geek to afford. Its hard to justify a grand or two for a compiler that maybe you don't have a revenue-generating project to pay for, let alone a support contract that might be an order of magnitude or more larger. If the appeal is aimed at getting me to talk my parent corporation into spending the funds - heck! I can't even talk them into using Ada on a "real" project to begin with! How am I going to get them to pony up for support? If its aimed at me as a private citizen - I'm just not that wealthy. This isn't a complaint, but it is an observation about market realities. The businessman needs to understand how people view it and adjust the business plan to provide something people *will* buy. Microsoft offers basically a newsletter and quarterly updates that are within the reach (maybe) of an independent developer. They may not be the model to copy, but it does suggest that folks will buy a compiler with limited support. How to get that product to the mainstream where it might generate the critical mass? I don't know, but there is probably an answer. If your compiler is a "sunk cost" and not generating enough revenue to make supporting it seem worth the effort, then maybe its time to take a "We Have Nothing To Lose" approach and put the thing out "as is" somewhere for free or some nominal cost under $100. Or maybe it needs to be heavily donated to schools? Or possibly value-added partners can be taken in - companies or small-time developers who could add something to the product in exchange for some right to re-market it? Figuring out the right answer requires a good deal of creativity and a willingness to break the mold. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Al Christians" wrote in message news:3B4B6F44.8C7CC353@easystreet.com... > It is not easy to speak from authority on this, since prices are not > on-line to reference. And I don't want to ask about price and be a > nuisance when I know as a rambling and scrambling 1-man consultancy I > can't afford this stuff, anyhow, and the vendors are so nice to make > possible freely available versions. I have paid for four Ada compilers > in my time, from four different vendors, and none of them was over > $2,000. But it has happened some times in the past when I pointed out > some problems with the freely available versions of some Ada products > here on CLA, figuring that CLA is where there are the most users and I > might get some help, that a response came back from vendor that if I > was a supported customer instead of a > taker-advantage-of-the-free-goodies-when-I'm-not-even-a-studenter > that the problems would be no problems. My natural response to such > messages is, "OK, how much would it cost to get this fixed?", and I have > let that response, however impertinent, issue forth from time to time. > Then I've got to talk to sales, and it's hard even to get pre-qualified > to talk to sales. But the prices I have been exposed to over the years > run to the order of $1,000 per seat per month and the debugger is extra, > I think, and then there are these minimums of six seats (last I heard, > but I try to avoid hearing, as I said above), and when I start adding it > all up and multiplying by the duration of the typical project, I'm into > multiple sheets of paper and six-figures more or less, plus or minus. > > I'm not on CLA to argue. I don't like to argue. I don't want to argue. > If anyone doesn't like this kind of idle babbling, they can pre-empt > any argument by publishing a price list and posting a url. I'm not > typing about anyone in particular. Please have mercy. I'm just trying > to explain myself to Ed, not provoke anything, or criticize anyone's > business model. You've got mouths to feed just as I do. Do it however > you please. TIA for your indulgence. > > > Al