From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 101deb,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid101deb,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1073c2,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid1073c2,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,c9f2b97a84c48976 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 10a146,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a146,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-06-21 07:35:57 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.planete.net!psinet-france!psiuk-f4!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!news.pace.co.uk!nh.pace.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.pl1,comp.lang.vrml,comp.lang.java.advocacy Subject: Re: Market pressures for more reliable software Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:20:22 -0400 Organization: Posted on a server owned by Pace Micro Technology plc Message-ID: <9gsvr7$7ho$1@nh.pace.co.uk> References: <9folnd$1t8$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B1FE1FE.B49AE27F@noaa.gov> <9fotpi$4k6$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3b24dc21$1@news.tce.com> <3B25D5FB.15C9B240@dresdner-bank.com> <9g5as6$hbq$1@magnum.mmm.com> <9g5ipg$roq$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9g614i$at4$1@magnum.mmm.com> <9g7r02$mni$1@nh.pace.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.170.200.133 X-Trace: nh.pace.co.uk 993133223 7736 136.170.200.133 (21 Jun 2001 14:20:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@pace.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 2001 14:20:23 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:8971 comp.lang.java.programmer:77822 comp.lang.pl1:1109 comp.lang.vrml:3901 comp.lang.java.advocacy:21554 Date: 2001-06-21T14:20:23+00:00 List-Id: I don't see how that matters in the context in which I was trying to make my point. You could always lease mainframe time - McDonnel Douglas had a big business doing exactly that (McAuto, if I recall) and there were others as well. That's centralized computing across legal entities. We don't do that much anymore - or if we do, I'd ask to see some evidence that the volume of business computing done on PCs/Workstations/Other-Local-Arrangements is exceeded by the volume of computing done by someone's centralized mainframe. I have the evidence of my own eyes when I look around in various businesses. If there's some evidence I'm not seeing, then I'd like someone to bring it forward. I seem to be getting misunderstood for reasons I don't comprehend. We *used*to* have centralized computing. We moved to *distributed* computing because it had big advantages over a centralized model. Microsoft is *repackaging* a centralized model and telling us "No. Really. We were wrong all along. It actually *is* Shinola!" and asking us to believe it is something new and wonderful and that we should all want to get out our checkbooks and start sending them money in order to get it. I don't think my claim here is really a strong one. I'm *not* saying that it is an exact duplicate of the centralized mainframe/data center concept. I'm *not* saying that there aren't big and important differences between the two. What I *am* saying is that we once had a centralized model and opted out of it and that what Bill Gates is suggesting is essentially a centralized model - with window dressing to try to fool us into believing it is something new and wonderful. Sort of like X-terminals being a "Glass-Teletype-With-Attitude" - it was a rehash of something we once had and moved away from. Yes, X-terminals do have important differences from teletypes (glass or otherwise) but the notion that the central computer will do all the "real" computing and the terminal will just be responsible for display of the information and input from the user wasn't some sort of revolutionary new advancement in the field of computer science. I wasn't fooled into thinking it was something new and apparently most other people weren't either because when you go into your garden-variety office you don't see thousands of x-terminals wired up to a central mainframe. You see lots of PCs and workstations. If someone wants to dispute this, I'd simply ask them for a reference to some kind of industry survey that shows how X-terminals outnumber PCs/Workstations in the business computing market. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Larry Kilgallen" wrote in message news:aPN5ieyHFSfT@eisner.encompasserve.org... > > But that was centralized within a legal entity, generally not across > legal entities like Microsoft is suggesting.