From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00, LOTS_OF_MONEY autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10ad19,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid10ad19,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 107a89,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid107a89,public X-Google-Thread: 1073c2,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid1073c2,public X-Google-Thread: 10a146,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a146,public X-Google-Thread: 101deb,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid101deb,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-06-08 07:06:14 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer1!btnet!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!surfnet.nl!isdnet!psinet-france!psiuk-f4!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!news.pace.co.uk!nh.pace.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.awk,comp.lang.clarion,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.pl1,comp.lang.vrml Subject: Off Topic: Hot Coffee (was Re: Long names are doom ?) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:43:43 -0400 Organization: Posted on a server owned by Pace Micro Technology plc Message-ID: <9fqkqh$mva$1@nh.pace.co.uk> References: <9f8b7b$h0e$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9f8r0i$lu3$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9fgagu$6ae$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9fjgha$blf$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <35mqhtkdfma2rggv1htcaq6vfn2ihs67a1@4ax.com> <9fli1b$4aa$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9folnd$1t8$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B1FE1FE.B49AE27F@noaa.gov> <9fotpi$4k6$1@nh.pace.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.170.200.133 X-Trace: nh.pace.co.uk 992007825 23530 136.170.200.133 (8 Jun 2001 13:43:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@pace.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jun 2001 13:43:45 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:8405 comp.lang.awk:2897 comp.lang.clarion:21437 comp.lang.java.programmer:74757 comp.lang.pl1:902 comp.lang.vrml:3640 Date: 2001-06-08T13:43:45+00:00 List-Id: None of those facts of the case in any way negates what I believe is the most important fact of the case: You are a grown-up now and you are responsible for your own actions. Hot things burn. You don't put hot things between your legs or otherwise balance them precariously unless you want to invite an accident. You handle dangerous, hot things with appropriate care and caution. When you do something stupid and injure yourself with someone else's product, it gets *real easy* to start looking for someone else to blame. All too often we don't look where we should: in the mirror. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Eric The Read" wrote in message news:xkfzobjj3ed.fsf@valdemar.cos.agilent.com... > "Marin David Condic" writes: > > When I was in kindergarden, the teacher gave us these sage words of advice: > > "Hot things burn. Sharp things cut." You *expect* coffee to be hot - that's > > the point. If it was cold, you would complain. Through your own > > carelessness, a thing expected to be what it is is actually what it is and > > it does you harm. That is the fault of McDonalds? > > I don't know why I expect computer professionals to be more informed > about this sort of thing than the average person (more web-literacy, > maybe? I don't know...) but you might wish to educate yourself a bit > more on the actual facts of the case. > > * McDonald's had paid more than 700 claims of exactly that type at the > point Ms. Leibeck sued them. They knew the nature and severity of the > injuries their coffee had caused. > > * Ms Leibeck suffered full-thickness (or third-degree) burns over 6 > percent of her body, and was hospitalized for 8 days, undergoing > (rather painful, I might editorialize here) skin grafts and debridement > treatments. > > * McDonald's served their coffee 40 to 50 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than > the industry norm. The consultant who advocated this to them admitted > he'd never done any safety analysis of that temperature. > > * McDonald's QA manager admitted that company policy required coffee to > be served at 185 degrees, +/- 5 degrees, and that burning hazards > existed at temperatures above 140. He further testified that > McDonald's knew there was a risk of burns, but wasn't going to do > anything about it. > > * At the temperatures the coffee was served, a full thickness burn of > human skin will only take about 2 to 7 seconds. If it had been served > even at 155 degrees, likely Ms. Liebeck would not have been seriously > injured. (A survey of Alberquerque McDonalds' afterward found coffee > served at an average of 158 degrees.) > > * The car Liebeck was in was stopped when she spilled the coffee, and she > was not in the driver's seat. > > * Leibeck originally sued for only $20,000, roughly her hospital costs. > The jury awarded her $160k, plus $2.7M for punitive damages, which > latter award the judge later reduced to a mere $480k (three times > compensatory damages). > > Source: > > > OTOH, One *expects* > > software to work just like one expects their car to work or their TV to > > work. (O.K. We all know better, but why do we stand for it?) When it doesn't > > do what it is expected to do, we let the manufacturer off the hook - even > > when there are proven methods for making software more reliable and they are > > not followed? > > That's the real problem, and the main obstacle, I think, is that nobody > has seriously tried to sue a software manufacturer for providing useless, > buggy, crap. At least, not that I'm aware of (corrections welcome). > Until we see consumers start caring about quality, feature creep will win > the day, I fear. > > Followups set to 'poster' for OT content; if you want to reply to the > last para, feel free. > > -=Eric > -- > The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax. > -- Albert Einstein