From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10ad19,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid10ad19,public X-Google-Thread: 101deb,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid101deb,public X-Google-Thread: 10a146,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a146,public X-Google-Thread: 107a89,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid107a89,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1073c2,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid1073c2,public X-Google-Thread: 11440e,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid11440e,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-06-04 09:05:22 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!isdnet!psinet-france!psiuk-f4!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!news.pace.co.uk!nh.pace.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ruby,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.awk,comp.lang.clarion,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.pl1,comp.lang.vrml Subject: Re: Long names are doom ? Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:46:36 -0400 Organization: Posted on a server owned by Pace Micro Technology plc Message-ID: <9fgagu$6ae$1@nh.pace.co.uk> References: <3B0DBD4A.82943473@my-deja.net> <3B0DD011.88FCD00E@acm.org> <83WP6.3874$yc6.728572@news.xtra.co.nz> <3B1411D0.3AAF42E7@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com> <9f2nks$ibd$0@dosa.alt.net> <3B177EF7.2A2470F4@facilnet.es> <9f8b7b$h0e$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9f8r0i$lu3$1@nh.pace.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.170.200.133 X-Trace: nh.pace.co.uk 991669598 6478 136.170.200.133 (4 Jun 2001 15:46:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@pace.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jun 2001 15:46:38 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ruby:10372 comp.lang.ada:8071 comp.lang.awk:2725 comp.lang.clarion:21024 comp.lang.java.programmer:73387 comp.lang.pl1:722 comp.lang.vrml:3454 Date: 2001-06-04T15:46:38+00:00 List-Id: Its important to note that the actual act of *typing* the code is so trivial in comparison to other phases that it falls below the noise level and is nearly undetectable. You may spend a fair amount of time *staring* at the code you are writing and *reasoning* about the code and so forth, but if one thinks the *typing* of the code is a significant part of the productivity equation, I'd want to challenge that and ask for some actual test data. Attempting to optimize typing time just isn't going to pay off in any business case. Except for one-shot, throw-away programs or extremely small, near-trivial programs, I think almost any study would show that the time spent reading the code far exceeds the time spent writing it - including the staring/reasoning part. (I'd exclude requirements and design time since these are basically language-independent activities. Test and debug time probably are significantly impacted by language choice - at least I had data to indicate this was true in one problem domain.) Hence the reason Ada was designed with readability in mind rather than attempting to save keystrokes. That realization and experience has impacted the way I write C code & I think most of my associates appreciate the fact that I eschew obfuscation when writing in C. It may not be as "terse" as their code, but it is a heck of a lot easier for them to figure out what my code is up to than the other way around. (And when did "terse" become of value in and of itself, anyway? Why should it be a goal to be strived for?) MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Ted Dennison" wrote in message news:IsNS6.3800$v4.180713@www.newsranger.com... > In article , Pete Thompson says... > > > >... C/C++ are terse languages. Being terse allows you to > >do more in a shorter period of time. I like using the i++ statement instead of > > Yowch. You lost me right there. Typing in the program is nowhere *near* the most > time-consuming part of developing software. That distinction belongs to the > "getting it to work" phase, along with maintanence in general. The focus needs > to be on doing things that will make those phases go quicker. > > This statement is a perfect illustration of how the ancient design of C > encourages developers to worry about optimizing the wrong things. Back in '72 > when C was designed, the size of a source file was a real issue, and programs > were generally much smaller (and thus simpler to get running). But none of this > is true today. > > --- > T.E.D. homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html > home email - mailto:dennison@telepath.com