From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a05:660c:2c6:: with SMTP id j6mr3870583itd.9.1551217392800; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 13:43:12 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:aca:bb46:: with SMTP id l67mr3589800oif.119.1551217392520; Tue, 26 Feb 2019 13:43:12 -0800 (PST) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder-in1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!y42no6507ita.0!news-out.google.com!v188ni23itb.0!nntp.google.com!y22no6562ita.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 13:43:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=165.225.72.109; posting-account=bMuEOQoAAACUUr_ghL3RBIi5neBZ5w_S NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.225.72.109 References: <2199b15b-d704-403f-a6c4-00fab29792d5@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <9fbf4856-af67-473d-8249-97488f542068@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Ada in command / control systems From: Maciej Sobczak Injection-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 21:43:12 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:55677 Date: 2019-02-26T13:43:12-08:00 List-Id: > > Moreover, after spending some time in the mixed SW/HW environment, I > > would never assume engineers from other domains to be less competent > > than software engineers. >=20 > It was a long time ago, and they may have learnt from terrible > programmers, but I've seen some really bad boot code implemented by > hardware guys. And yet the same guys went through some well-defined process designing thei= r hardware. They made diagrams, they calculated everything before actually = implementing anything (so they used formal methods even without referring t= o this process this way), they planned they physical aspects and carefully = designed the layout, they cared about traceability and made sure nothing go= t lost on the way, they validated all connections top-down and bottom-up an= d even made the bill of material for production. Considering the high cost = of errors, they have put a lot of effort not to make any. And then they went to coding the crappy boot loader that works only by chan= ce. What I'm interested in is how this is possible. Of course, it is easy for u= s (and self-flattering, right?) to just assume that they are simply incompe= tent, but I see some deeper problem here. I think that during the last decades we have made it possible to produce cr= appy software. It's too cheap to fix to bother to make it right. This is th= e comfort that other domains do not have and this is what makes the differe= nce in how engineering in different domains is practiced. --=20 Maciej Sobczak * http://www.inspirel.com