From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM
	autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4
X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit
X-Google-Thread: 11232c,59ec73856b699922
X-Google-Attributes: gid11232c,public
X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,59ec73856b699922
X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public
X-Google-Thread: fdb77,5f529c91be2ac930
X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public
X-Google-Thread: 103376,583275b6950bf4e6
X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public
X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-04-25 10:37:38 PST
Path: archiver1.google.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: softeng3456@netscape.net (soft-eng)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.object,comp.lang.ada,misc.misc
Subject: Re: the Ada mandate,
 and why it collapsed and died (was): 64 bit  addressing and OOP
Date: 25 Apr 2003 10:37:38 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
Message-ID: <9fa75d42.0304250937.36a7897e@posting.google.com>
References: <mvul4v00ftbai2g6duuh0r38jpii2qvpjl@4ax.com>
 <a3eaa964.0302261448.6f38de58@posting.google.com>
 <8qkczsAcGcn+Ew83@nildram.co.uk>
 <a3eaa964.0304162216.60978001@posting.google.com>
 <3EA04A1E.CAFC1FEF@adaworks.com>
 <9fa75d42.0304221126.7112b7d5@posting.google.com>
 <b84gku$2i5l$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>
 <9fa75d42.0304230439.55d28e70@posting.google.com>
 <slrnbadndp.o8q.mbkennelSPAMBEGONE@lyapunov.ucsd.edu>
 <9fa75d42.0304240503.54dbc5d1@posting.google.com>
 <b89nj1$1ikp$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.97.239.26
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1051292258 31485 127.0.0.1 (25 Apr 2003 17:37:38
 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Apr 2003 17:37:38 GMT
Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.java.advocacy:62668 comp.object:61985
 comp.lang.ada:36558 misc.misc:13689
Date: 2003-04-25T17:37:38+00:00
List-Id: <comp.lang.ada>

"Chad R. Meiners" <crmeiners@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<b89nj1$1ikp$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>...
> "soft-eng" <softeng3456@netscape.net> wrote in message >
> > Syntax is core to the language.
> 
> True.
> 
> >So it should not be
> > unnecessarily overloaded.
> 
> Of course--please show how Ada is unnecessarily overloaded.  That was your
> unsupported implication wasn't it?
> 
> >Libraries can be learned
> > in specialized variations, as needed.
> 
> But then you can have competing and inconsistent libraries which is an issue
> raised before that you failed to address.
> 
> >But every
> > programmer needs to know the syntax.
> 
> A programmer only needs to know enough syntax of a language to be an
> effective developer.
> 
> >(Should anyway;
> > if people are chunking the language syntax so
> > their programmers can get their heads around it,
> > I think the syntax is too complex.)
> 
> You must realize that most languages fail this test since programmers often
> only learn a subset of the language that they find useful.  If you are to
> take your view seriously, then you will most likely have to declare all
> languages too complex.

I think you need some actual experience with programmers
of different language.  Then you will be able to
make valid arguments on this.  E.g. how much of
the syntax of Java or VB the typical programmer
knows.  Language libraries are a (philosophically
and in practice) different issue, but most of the syntax
is well understood by most programmers.

Note that his argument does not apply to C++ -- most
C++ programmers only know a subset of the C++ syntax well.
(Specially since the syntax has been relentlessly expanded.)
But that's the reason for C++'s losing a lot
of ground.  Very soon advocates will start appearing
to claim C++ is the best thing since sliced bread,
and absolutely the best language for *everything*.
When that happens, C++ will be in the same
land where Ada is now.