From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 107f24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid107f24,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ea8ea502d35ca2ce X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 103d24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid103d24,public X-Google-Thread: 1164ba,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid1164ba,public X-Google-Thread: f4fd2,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gidf4fd2,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 10259a,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid10259a,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-05-17 16:22:06 PST Path: archiver1.sj.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!freenix!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.umd.edu!peter.schuller From: peter.schuller@infidyne.com (Peter Schuller) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.basic,comp.lang.functional,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.perl Subject: Re: [OT] Software Engineering at 14 (was: Re: Beginner's Language?) Date: 17 May 2001 23:19:39 GMT Organization: University of Maryland College Park Message-ID: <9e1mab$hr6$1@hecate.umd.edu> References: <9cukad$nn68@news-dxb> <9d6b6e$1bt$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <87snihxiwc.fsf@frown.here> <9dbi83$sji$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <87heyu7cqd.fsf@frown.here> <9dc20p$hh15e$1@ID-37382.news.dfncis.de> <9ddfv2$gl3$1@merrimack.Dartmouth.EDU> <9dh21o$i8crr$2@ID-37382.news.dfncis.de> <9dhtr9$59d$1@merrimack.Dartmouth.EDU> <9dmq0v$60r$1@hecate.umd.edu> <9dmvrg$49c$1@merrimack.Dartmouth.EDU> <9dnnnf$idk$1@hecate.umd.edu> <9dntj0$elp$1@merrimack.Dartmouth.EDU> <9dp8km$1i8$1@hecate.umd.edu> <9ds03g$phk$2@hecate.umd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: scode.student.umd.edu X-Trace: hecate.umd.edu 990141579 18278 129.2.244.203 (17 May 2001 23:19:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wam.umd.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 May 2001 23:19:39 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Xref: archiver1.sj.google.com comp.lang.ada:7626 comp.lang.lisp:10250 comp.lang.smalltalk:9819 comp.lang.functional:5714 comp.lang.scheme:3894 comp.lang.perl:2810 Date: 2001-05-17T23:19:39+00:00 List-Id: >The original poster, Me. >who was whinging about the irrelevance of >studying history on a computer curriculum, clearly never grasped that >basic fact. Of course I do. The point was that you should get to *choose*. There is no objective truth that says history is somehow more important for everyone to learn than, say, quantum physics. Or if there is such an objective truth, it's impossible to determine wheather a subjective opinion matches that truth. I never said a CS student should study only CS courses. I just said the student should have the ability to choose. Instead of history, perhaps I would have studied filosophy, etc. Just because I don't think everyone should be forced to get a specific broad education, it doesn't mean I am against getting a broad education. You clearly don't "grasp this basic fact"... >In fact, computer science is, in general, far too ignorant >of *it's* history. Other engineering disciplines make a point out of >post-mortem analysis of errors; few indeed are the computer >firms/software engineers that do. I remember having one professor in >my Uni. days who lamented this; I have learned since that he was very >right. If you're ignorant of history, you *will* repeat; even if >you're compliant to the latest silver-bullet buzzword. Ok. And exactly how does this mean I have to know when that aforementioned alcoholic was admitted to a mental institution? I actually don't have anything against history in the general sense. Just the history tought in school. I want choice. WWII? Give it to me. WWI? The same. The history of the human species? Sure. And so on. Swedish kings? No, and I shouldn't be foreced to study it. Especially not more than once. >For that matter the "soft sciences" have more to tell us in practical >CS than many of us geekier types would like to admit. Large-scale >programming is at least as much a social exercise as it is a technical >one. Broad education[1] is *good* for software development. Repeat of question above + see above about broad education. >david rush > >[1] IIRC, at least one poster (the same one who complainmed about >having to learn history?) sang out in praise of Perl. While I am not a >Perl fan, you have to admit the Larry Wall is very broadly >educated/informed, and he himself clains that he has brought ideas >from many diverse topics to bear in the design of Perl. I did no such thing. I absolutely hate perl. It's a mess. So no, that was not the same person who complained. -- / Peter Schuller, InfiDyne Technologies HB PGP userID: 0xE9758B7D or 'Peter Schuller ' Key retrival: Send an E-Mail to getpgpkey@scode.org E-Mail: peter.schuller@infidyne.com Web: http://www.scode.org