From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 107f24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid107f24,public X-Google-Thread: f4fd2,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gidf4fd2,public X-Google-Thread: 1164ba,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid1164ba,public X-Google-Thread: 10259a,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid10259a,public X-Google-Thread: 103d24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid103d24,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ea8ea502d35ca2ce X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-05-12 10:22:03 PST Path: archiver1.sj.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!nslave.kpnqwest.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!newsfeed.wu-wien.ac.at!not-for-mail From: Markus Mottl Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.basic,comp.lang.functional,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.perl Subject: Re: [OT] Software Engineering at 14 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 17:20:12 +0000 (UTC) Organization: University of Economics and Business Administration, Vienna, Austria Message-ID: <9djrcc$2be$1@bird.wu-wien.ac.at> References: <9cukad$nn68@news-dxb> <9d6b6e$1bt$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <87snihxiwc.fsf@frown.here> <9dbi83$sji$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <87heyu7cqd.fsf@frown.here> <9dc20p$hh15e$1@ID-37382.news.dfncis.de> <9ddfv2$gl3$1@merrimack.Dartmouth.EDU> <9dh21o$i8crr$2@ID-37382.news.dfncis.de> <9dhtr9$59d$1@merrimack.Dartmouth.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: miss.wu-wien.ac.at X-Trace: bird.wu-wien.ac.at 989688012 2414 137.208.107.17 (12 May 2001 17:20:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-admin@wu-wien.ac.at NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 17:20:12 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-981225 ("Volcane") (UNIX) (OSF1/V4.0 (alpha)) Xref: archiver1.sj.google.com comp.lang.ada:7424 comp.lang.lisp:9913 comp.lang.smalltalk:9609 comp.lang.functional:5567 comp.lang.scheme:3741 comp.lang.perl:2673 Date: 2001-05-12T17:20:12+00:00 List-Id: In comp.lang.functional FM wrote: >> You mean the age? That's not a problem. > Specialized education at that age, to be honest, seems militaristic. Nobody is forced to go to this type of school ("HTL") - it's up to their choice. They can also continue with more general education in a grammar school ("AHS"). Some people choose to limit their choices... >> This school actually educates Austria's software engineering elite. > This was probably my principal objection. Why should you or anyone > decide whether you are, at the age of 14, part of the nation's > software engineering elite or not? What the heck does it mean anyway? > If you refuse the assignment, then somehow you aren't part of that > elite? That's probably what their teachers told them. Their education is very practically oriented (both in the positive and negative sense of the word), which also includes a significant amount of e.g. mainframe assembler programming etc. In my opinion they specialize far too much on irrelevant details of certain platforms or technologies (including programming languages). > As much as it might be inevitable, this practice of limiting young > people's options and permanently dividing them into different classes > for the future before they are even close to being adult, frightens > my humanistic side. I'm not sure if I see any tangible benefit either. I agree on this. >> The students who manage to do all 5 years are >> usually very innovative. > I think it's an excellent way to kill that innovative side everyone > is endowed with. My experience with graduates from these schools at university generally is that their knowledge does not help them too much when faced with tasks that they were not specially trained for (in comparison to other students). Their technical mastery is certainly higher than average, but not significantly different from the one of people who studied (<> played with) computers for fun besides school. Regards, Markus Mottl -- Markus Mottl, mottl@miss.wu-wien.ac.at, http://miss.wu-wien.ac.at/~mottl