From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 107f24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid107f24,public X-Google-Thread: f4fd2,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gidf4fd2,public X-Google-Thread: 103d24,626a0a064b320310 X-Google-Attributes: gid103d24,public X-Google-Thread: 106e63,4d69155937632764 X-Google-Attributes: gid106e63,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ea8ea502d35ca2ce X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-05-06 06:36:02 PST Path: newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!194.213.69.151!news.algonet.se!algonet!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail From: "Dan Andersson" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.smalltalk.advocacy,comp.lang.functional,comp.lang.scheme Subject: SV: SV: Beginner's Language? Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 15:31:09 +0200 Organization: Telenordia Message-ID: <9d3jn5$1mh$1@zingo.tninet.se> References: <9cukad$nn68@news-dxb> <3AF4841D.7B63812C@Desk.org> <3AF4AD27.BE4B5678@Desk.org> <3AF4CD7D.80F16169@Desk.org> <9d3a8f$fjl$1@zingo.tninet.se> <3AF538BE.836E1B76@Desk.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: sdu143-225.ppp.algonet.se X-Trace: zingo.tninet.se 989155877 1745 195.163.225.143 (6 May 2001 13:31:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@algo.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 May 2001 13:31:17 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Xref: newsfeed.google.com comp.lang.ada:7233 comp.lang.lisp:9743 comp.lang.functional:5540 comp.lang.scheme:3654 Date: 2001-05-06T13:31:17+00:00 List-Id: Since Forth is essentially syntax less (It only has semantics) and only a few concepts, less than ten I contest and maybe less than five depending on how you define concepts (Concept == stretchy definition word), I really don't see that either. One case in point is that it is not uncommon to learn Forth by writing a new Forth after being taught the concepts, or maybe a subset like a simple rpn evaluator. And I'm not talking about modifying existing code but recreating it from machine code and up. That shows something of the simplicity of it.The number of user created Smalltalks are few in comparison. Tcl is another case of a few concepts language, but even though the syntax is really simple it has a steep learning curve since the syntax is based on inhuman concepts, IMO. But even if Forth is simple and efficient it has not really taken of in the mainstream, maybe because the many versions or maybe because there are so many worthy languages out there. For example the simple object oriented languages Oberon-2 and Eiffel who are small but not toy languages, or Icon and Unicon with their extremely expressive syntax and some functional languages like Erlang, Haskell and Clean. Not to forget the Lisp/Scheme complex with the excellent DrScheme environment that I cannot recommend enough. Regards Dan Andersson