From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 115aec,732030daa45ab98a X-Google-Attributes: gid115aec,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,732030daa45ab98a X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-04-27 06:37:08 PST Path: newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.planete.net!psinet-france!psiuk-f4!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!news.pace.co.uk!nh.pace.co.uk!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.realtime Subject: Re: European train deaths Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:27:05 -0400 Organization: Posted on a server owned by Pace Micro Technology plc Message-ID: <9cbs3b$obf$1@nh.pace.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.170.200.133 X-Trace: nh.pace.co.uk 988378027 24943 136.170.200.133 (27 Apr 2001 13:27:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@pace.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Apr 2001 13:27:07 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Xref: newsfeed.google.com comp.lang.ada:6972 comp.realtime:2423 Date: 2001-04-27T13:27:07+00:00 List-Id: The problem is that there is so much more that goes into a major system failure than just the software. Possibly you can only conclude in some cases that the software may have been the initiating cause of a failure, but its almost never possible to establish that the software may have been the critical in the prevention of a failure. If there are more/less accidents on EU trains, can Ada take blame/credit for it? That's really difficult to establish. A more productive (yet still arguable) effort is to try to establish that Ada (and methods) reduce errors in delivered systems. This you stand a chance of demonstrating in a quantifiable way. From there you have a case that Ada contributes to safer systems. Looking at train wrecks and noting that Ada was involved really doesn't tell you much. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ "Colin Paul Gloster" wrote in message news:slrn9eiqb9.58t8.Colin_Paul_Gloster@tolka.dcu.ie... > Something which occured to me only yesterday (unless I cleanly > forgot before) is that Ada and formal methods are used for > European train systems and so these may be involved in some > of the spate of fatal crashes over the last circa two years > in the U.K.; Norway; and elsewhere in the E.U.. At least one > in the U.K. had to do with a light signalling error if > memory serves correctly but I do not recall if this had > anything to do with software. It may be worthwhile to investigate this -- > would any of ye happen to remember if computers were involved in these > locomotive incidents? > > Thank you, > Colin Paul Gloster > > P.S. I apologise in advance for not promptly replying to any forthcoming > responses. I will be out of touch for much of the coming month.