From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,1116ece181be1aea X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-10-04 07:23:01 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.easynews.com!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: chris User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Is the Writing on the Wall for Ada? References: <3F7E01EB.8090400@noplace.com> <3F7EC895.8010507@noplace.com> In-Reply-To: <3F7EC895.8010507@noplace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9JAfb.6590$QH3.498@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net> Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 15:28:20 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.98.236.164 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net 1065277381 81.98.236.164 (Sat, 04 Oct 2003 15:23:01 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 15:23:01 BST Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:223 Date: 2003-10-04T15:28:20+01:00 List-Id: Marin David Condic wrote: > I don't think it should be in the standard. All you need the ARG for is > put their blessing on some effort. Some members of the ARG do read this > newsgroup, so I'm sure they've heard the call for a library. It is not > clear that they, or the vendors, want to go down that route. However, I > think if everyone that participated in this newsgroup started chanting > "We Want A Library!" really loud, it would likely get more attention. Who wants some kind of std lib then? What do you want of one? > So a solution does exist - just *START* by getting the ARG & vendors to > issue the proclamation that they are going to start a Quest For The > Conventional Ada Library. I don't even think they'd need to use much of > their time beyond figuring out what sort of structure to use to hand the > project management job off to someone else. But it could take years to get one, that's no good if you need something *now*! > Well, you can't succeed by simply following what other languages have > done and proclaiming "Me Too!!!" They've already got a jump on you and > you'll never catch up so you can't attract their users away. You've got > to think about how Ada can be "Different", "Better", etc. Ada has to > offer *more* value in a unique way if it is going to attract users. > Something has to intrigue the programmer community: "Hey, I heard about > this cool thing where you can do this and that and its a lot faster, > easier, better, cheaper, etc., than what you can do with Language X...." It's not faster, easier or cheaper to develop the apps I want right *now*. They might end up better in the end, but it takes *much* more time and involves moderate levels of difficulty. The areas where it takes more time and is more difficult are the libraries! Putting apps together is not trivial, but it's certainly easier than creating bindings and libraries with good abstractions and the app itself. You're right in that Ada may have more to offer in future, but it doesn't now! IMO it offers more in some ways but once you actually want to do some general purpose task it doesn't. It's aimed at specialists, not general sw development. > Get that buzz going and you will find lots of new users. That's good for the new users, but what about me? I'm stuck creating bindings to libs that I could use straight away in C/C++! I'm stuck creating libraries and tools and not programming the main application! > Having more tools of any sort isn't "bad". But given that you can't do > everything, what are the things you want to concentrate on? I don't > think that Ada should strive to be just another .NET programming > language. I didn't say that. I said it was a good thing to port to .Net, and that's all. It's good because you get access to a lot of sw. > Perhaps someone will port to .NET someday, but I think the > effort available should be spent on doing something that will make Ada > more powerful in a *unique* way. People have already ported to .Net with A#. > Make it attractive to some large > segment of the programmers in some domain and they'll start generating > the demand for ports to whatever they want to use. It's attractive to me in the domains I'm interested in but already I'm frustrated binding to things. Everytime I want to do something thing either exist but I can't find it or doesn't fit with other sw or it doesn't exist at all. Chris