From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,c78177ec2e61f4ac X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: "Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93" Subject: Re: Best for small embedded systems - was RE:ada and robots Date: 1997/06/06 Message-ID: <97060615152267@psavax.pwfl.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 246829755 Sender: Ada programming language Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU X-Vms-To: SMTP%"INFO-ADA@VM1.NODAK.EDU" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada X-Vms-Cc: CONDIC Date: 1997-06-06T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: SMTP%"WhiteR@no.spam.please.crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us" writes: > I tend to agree, with the exception that there are a lot of Forth >users/usages for small, resource constrained, embedded applications. >You can't beat the memory efficiency. Difficult to get up to speed >and be able to _think_ in Forth, but once you do a lone wolf >programmer can be very very productive (with his personal Forth >vocabulary of reuseable code). > I think the key is that we're talking about very small microcontrollers which are programmed by a single individual (or maybe one programmer and one or more domain experts.) For the "lone wolf" programmer on a smallish sort of job, you want to go with a) inexpensive, readily available target processor, b) the least expensive, most readily available development environment and c) what the "lone wolf" is most familiar with. Ada is great and for me, satisfies item "C". The problem is item "B" for most of your microcontroller projects. The development cost *is* the lifecycle cost, so you can't afford to spend a lot of time or money trying to get a language targeted to the processor. If it isn't already on the shelf and available at nominal cost, it looses. Sorry that life isn't fair to computer languages. > But for those medium to large (with a lot of floating point) >embedded applications which involve team programming Ada seems, IMHO, >to work best. Also it tends to be much easier to maintain when >revisited by new personnel years later. > > I'll agree - although the "with a lot of floating point" part confuses me. Is this because Forth doesn't handle floating point particularly well? (I don't think Ada is head-and-shoulders above most other languages in its ability to do floating point. Certainly C has the ability to do floating point - albeit without the nice safety nets of strong typing, constraint checking, etc.) Our engine control projects tend to run on for *years* (The F119 Advanced Tactical Fighter control was just ramping up when I got here some 8.5 years ago and we're just now going into production with it.) Granted, there comes a point where we consider the software to be "done" but you're almost forever going in and tweaking things because somebody got a performance improvement idea or some such. Ada's superior readability contributes a lot to being able to toss the software at a new guy and getting him up to speed. While I'm an Ada advocate, I still believe you have to look at the whole project and try to do the right thing by accounting for all the various factors. Tiny microcontrollers that already have C or Forth compilers, but not Ada compilers stacks the deck against Ada in my book. MDC Marin David Condic, Senior Computer Engineer ATT: 561.796.8997 Pratt & Whitney, GESP Fax: 561.796.4669 West Palm Beach, FL Internet: CONDICMA@PWFL.COM =============================================================================== "Having an open mind is nothing. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." -- G.K. Chesterton ===============================================================================