From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,INVALID_DATE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,f20c8609eb15ae72,start X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 1993-03-31 00:05:26 PST Path: sparky!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!agate!ucbvax!ROO.FIT.EDU!SAHARBAUGH From: SAHARBAUGH@ROO.FIT.EDU Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: So if the problem isn't Ada, then what is the problem? Message-ID: <9303301228.AA22963@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu> Date: 30 Mar 93 11:19:00 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: world Organization: The Internet Date: 1993-03-30T11:19:00+00:00 List-Id: Gary Funck asks: So if the problem isn't Ada, then what is the problem? IMHO the problem is lack of good systems engineering. Software engineering can go only so far in insuring a good system. Ada has been a successful nucleating point for software engineering and GREAT strides have been made of the past 15 years in software engineering. The language, the tools, the process description, the capability maturity model, the capability assessment have all worked together to define a software engineering discipline. I see on this BB the frustration when systems continue to fail. People turn against each other. "If only we had used a different programming language" If only we had some other name than tagged" etc "then all would be well". It would make no difference in system behavior in my opinion. You have only so much design freedom at the software programming language level of system design. By time a project gets to software the fatal flaws are firmly in place. The GAO reports say "lack of proper requiremnts" etc. Is all lost? No. The relatively new National Council on Systems Engineering is addressing the problem. We are emulating the software engineering community, defining a systems engineering process, a maturity model etc. No mention of a language has been made. NCOSE is NOT a Gov sponsored organization. There is no System Joint Program office, no strawman, steelman language specs, no big dollar contracts to develop tools before the process and technology is understood. The SE model is being done by NCOSE members on their own time. I guess that some of them attend meetings on Gov contractor ooverhead $ so some tax money gets spent somehow. If you want to know a poc for your nearest NCOSE chapter send me e-mail and I'll tell you as best I can. p.s. Systems engineering views software engineering as a "specialty engineering". It is not expected that software engineering alone can insure good systems. I urge you to become active in NCOSE and bring your vast experience, knowledge and zeal to bear on THE REAL PROBLEM. sam harbaugh SAHARBAUGH@ROO.FIT.EDU