From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HEADER_SPAM, PP_MIME_FAKE_ASCII_TEXT,REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: fac41,5a3fded16a481755 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 10a146,5a3fded16a481755 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a146,public X-Google-Thread: f753e,5a3fded16a481755 X-Google-Attributes: gidf753e,public X-Google-Thread: f9437,5a3fded16a481755 X-Google-Attributes: gidf9437,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,5a3fded16a481755 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 100be6,5a3fded16a481755 X-Google-Attributes: gid100be6,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,5a3fded16a481755 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,5a3fded16a481755 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public From: David Bostwick Subject: RESULT: comp.object.moderated moderated passes 324:24 Date: 1998/11/19 Message-ID: <911496584.20382@isc.org> X-Deja-AN: 413568275 References: <904176047.28200@isc.org> <909598312.23804@isc.org> <910744959.17155@isc.org> Supersedes: <910744959.17155@isc.org> Followup-To: news.groups Archive-Name: comp.object.moderated Organization: Usenet Volunteer Votetakers Reply-To: bostwick@cas.chemistry.gatech.edu Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.object,comp.object.corba,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.c++.moderated Date: 1998-11-19T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: RESULT moderated group comp.object.moderated passes 324:24 There were 324 YES votes and 24 NO votes, for a total of 348 valid votes. There were 5 abstains. For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO) votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes. There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter. Newsgroups line: comp.object.moderated A moderated forum for Object-oriented issues. (Moderated) The voting period ended at 23:59:59 UTC, 18 Nov 1998. This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent. Proponent: Tim Ottinger Votetaker: David Bostwick RATIONALE: comp.object.moderated Object-oriented programming has long ago graduated from a niche study to an industry force, so the discussion of things object-oriented has likewise increased in general interest and audience. This surge has increased the participation in comp.object so that it is difficult for participants to keep up with the volume. In addition, the comp.object newsgroup now receives a substantial number of inappropriate posts, much of which are of little value or interest to the community at large, and a large number of which are easily characterized as "flames" or "trolls". For those who would like to have a greater signal-to-noise ratio than is afforded in comp.object, we wish to create a second, separate newsgroup which is moderated to reduce the occurrance of spam, flames, trolls, and off-topic posts. In this way, the newsgroup will cater to professionals with less time for scanning the news, and those who wish to avoid flames. The moderators of comp.object.moderated were elected by a public, majority vote on comp.object and have produced a policy which they feel will encourage OO discussions and attract new readers and expert participants. Comp.object will not be moderated, though. It will remain as an alternative. On comp.object, one may have discussions on more tangential topics. Comp.object.moderated merely provides the readership with a well-focused, flame-free, spam-free choice. CHARTER: comp.object.moderated Comp.object.moderated is a moderated news group for discussion of issues directly related to Object-oriented theory and Object-oriented practice, and of general interest to the Object-oriented community. Any such articles are welcome, and are recommendations of alternative approaches in response to questions directly related to Object-oriented theory or practice. Moderation Policy: I PRINCIPLES Moderation is desired to attract and maintain participation by old posters, new posters, and especially expert posters. To do so, comp.object.moderated provides a non-threatening forum for discussing Object-oriented practice and theory. To attract and maintain a large professional readership this policy ensures that the forum is as concise and useful as it can possibly be. Here is what this moderation policy is intended to achieve with respect to each article: 1) ON TOPIC 2) NO FLAMES 3) NO SPAM 4) NO NONSENSE These goals are characterized as follows: 1) ON TOPIC (Discussions of) the following subjects are regarded as being on topic in comp.object.moderated: a) the syntax and semantics of various Object-oriented languages, b) Object-oriented tricks and techniques, c) case studies, d) issues of software engineering related to Object-oriented, e) issues of software management related to Object-oriented, f) issue of design philosophy related to Object-oriented, g) design patterns related to Object-oriented, etc. h) Object-oriented analysis techniques. i) Object-oriented process. j) Object-oriented tools. k) Object-oriented Modeling. l) any and all other discussions relating or pertaining to Object- oriented techniques. m) management and policy of the newsgroup. Articles may be rejected as being off-topic if there are other, more specific newsgroups to which they belong. If an article references products like tools, libraries or platforms, it is still acceptable if the article just mentions these products as illustrations or examples and abstains from support questions. When in doubt: An article shall be accepted, especially for short off-topic digressions in a thread. In order to keep the noise level low, if such an article has already been accepted in recent days, the moderator body may decide to reject the newer one and refer the author to the earlier one. 2) NO FLAMES a) No threats or attempts at intimidation are tolerated. Those drive away audience. New posters are intimidated by it, and experts don't have the time or energy to waste on it. Such things are personal, and not of interest to the general Object-oriented audience. b) No disrespect towards others is tolerated. When people are unkind, new people will choose not to participate. Personal feelings against one or another are not of interest to the general Object-oriented audience. People should read all ideas, and choose the ones that work for them, and a poor idea should be shown to be poor by technical or practical reasons. c) No disdainful or belittling articles are tolerated, no matter whether the contents of the article are otherwise correct or not. d) Questioning of other people's motives and honesty is explicitly considered both off-topic and extremely rude, no matter whether the contents of the article are otherwise correct or not. d) Any but the most light-hearted attempts at one-upmanship will be disallowed. Participation in a comp.object.moderated thread is not a contest with prizes for the winners. In essence, all attempts to hijack comp.object.moderated to wage a personal attack would not only be counter-productive, but also off-topic. When people speak against each other, they've lost focus on the issues at hand. When in doubt: An article is rejected. Not a flame shall pass through. 3) NO NONSENSE a) FAQs aren't nonsense, but the repeated posting and answering of them is. Nobody wants to read the exact same questions and answers over and over. It's a burden on the reader that gates his productive use of the forum. b) Verbatim or slightly rephrased reposts are nonsense. c) Trolls are nonsense. d) Binaries are considered inappropriate in this newsgroup. In short, comp.object.moderated should be a forum you can read with the same confidence you have reading a manual or technical journal. It is an interactive professional forum, not a hobbyist board or a war board. It belongs to the community of people whose work is the practice and theory of Object-Orientation, and anything that turns the newsgroup away from that community, or turns the community away from the newsgroup, is not welcome. When in doubt: An article is accepted, general noise level permitting. 4) NO SPAM The war on SPAM is the war to maintain control of the professional nature and the signal-to-noise ratio of a newsgroup. The Jargon File (http://sagan.earthspace.net/jargon) describes spam in the following terms: "...To cause a newsgroup to be flooded with irrelevant or inappropriate messages. [...] To send many identical or nearly-identical messages separately to a large number of Usenet newsgroups..." Whatever a moderator has to do to stop SPAM without rejecting legitimate posts is good. If stopping spam means blacklisting spam-posters, then so be it. If it involves building complex filtering rules, fine. If it is easily handled by rejecting posts, fine again. When in doubt: An article is rejected. II MEANS These goals are to be achieved as follows: 1) Automated format checking If the posted article is not properly formatted (i.e. the news headers aren't right -- your news software should take care of this) or if the article is larger than 50KB, then it will be automatically rejected. The poster may or may not be notified of this kind of rejection, depending upon just how bad the headers were. Articles without Date: or Subject: headers are not properly formatted. 2) Moderator Notes Moderators may add a note to an article only for the reasons and according to the policies stated above, to correct incomplete or incorrect references, or to recommend changing thread titles when topics drift from their original focus. The form of those notes will always be the same. They will composed of text in square brackets. The last four characters of the text in square brackets will be -mod. Thus: [text of the note. -mod]. Moderators will be extremely conservative with their use of notes. Most articles should not have any notes. Those that do should have only one, or at the most two. So be judicious. 3) Acceptance and Rejection Procedures Accepted articles are to be posted immediately. When an article is rejected by a moderator, it will be emailed back to the poster. The subject of the email message will be: "Rejected, violates: [reason list]." where reason list is a comma separated list of the codes specified in the acceptance criteria above. e.g. "Rejected, violates: [ON TOPIC, NO FLAMES c)]." The moderator should include moderator notes in the body of the article that explain why the article was rejected. The format of those notes should be as specified above, but they can be as brief or wordy as needed to get the point across. There also may be as many as needed. 4) Moderator Anonymity Moderators act as a single body. Any rejection should be viewed as a rejection by the moderators and not by any particular moderator. As such, the identity of the rejecting moderator will not be exposed to the poster whose article was rejected (i.e. the moderator's signature will be stripped). Any questions that the poster may have can be referred to the moderator's hotline email address. 5) Appeal Policy Any poster of a rejected message may appeal that rejection to the moderators by emailing the article to the moderators' hotline. The moderators will review the rejection and either post or reject the article based upon their conclusion. 6) Moderator Posting Policy Moderators are not allowed to moderate their own articles. No article written by a moderator will be posted unless one of the other moderators accepts it. 7) Moderator Body The number of moderators shall not become less than five, so as to preserve the integrity of the appeal process. When there is a shortage of moderators, the remaining moderators select willing volunteers who are participants in the newsgroup and whose posting history shows understanding of and respect for the moderation policy. H) FAQ There will be a collection of answers to comp.object.moderated FAQs which is made publicly and freely available. The moderator body maintains, extends and publishes this FAQ document and points the comp.object.moderated readers to it as appropriate. The moderator body may decide to delegate this work. END CHARTER. MODERATOR INFO: comp.object.moderated Moderator: Patrick Logan Moderator: Patrick Doyle Moderator: Martijn Meijering Moderator: John Goodsen Moderator: Rolf Katzenberger Moderator: Yonat Sharon Administrative contact address: comp.object.maintainer@oma.com Article submission address: com.submit@oma.com END MODERATOR INFO. comp.object.moderated Final Vote Ack Voted Yes ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1grotria [at] informatik.uni-hamburg.de Peter Grotrian 70672.1744 [at] compuserve.com John I. Moore, Jr. aaw [at] ascham.demon.co.uk Anthony Willoughby adam [at] flash.irvine.com Adam Beneschan adrianh [at] victoriareal.co.uk Adrian Howard ady [at] thermoteknix.co.uk Ady Coles afrazer [at] ophelia.telstra.com.au Andrew Frazer ahecht [at] mindspring.com Alan Hecht alfred.gebert [at] systor.com Alfred Gebert allender [at] erols.com John Allender andy [at] ffaltd.demon.co.uk Andy Hunt anilk [at] arbornet.org Anil Krishnamurthy anupriyo [at] delphi.com Anupriyo Chakravarti arielle [at] taronga.com Stephanie da Silva ark [at] research.att.com Andrew Koenig assfalg [at] dsi.unifi.it Jurgen Assfalg a_bond [at] rinet.ru Anton Bondarenko BAILEYK [at] SCHNEIDER.COM Kendall Bailey balser [at] uke.uni-hamburg.de Markus Balser barry.prescott [at] wanadoo.fr Barry Prescott bbutton [at] insight-tech.com Brian Button BCasiello [at] Banyan.com Brian Casiello behrends [at] cse.msu.edu Reimer Behrends bernhard.buergin [at] ubs.com Bernard Burgin bert [at] dgb.nl Bert Bril bijuthom [at] ibm.net Biju Thomas bill [at] wadley.org Bill Wadley binkley [at] bigfoot.com Brian Keith Oxley bjv [at] herbison.com B.J. Herbison bmiller [at] cccglobal.com Brian R. Miller bodewig [at] bost.de Stefan Bodewig booda [at] datasync.com Martin H. Booda boud [at] rempt.xs4all.nl Boudewijn Rempt bparsia [at] email.unc.edu Bijan Parsia bpr [at] best.com Brian Rogoff bradapp [at] enteract.com Brad Appleton brand [at] nina.pagesz.net Jeff Brandenburg Brane.Dernac [at] select-tech.si Brane Dernac brangdon [at] cix.co.uk Dave Harris britt [at] acm.org F. BRITT SNODGRASS BrookeF [at] gvsi.com Brooke Fair Brownsta [at] concentric.net Stan Brown bsey [at] pobox.com Bill Seymour burris [at] neosoft.com Rick A. Burris c [at] nautronix.com.au carl johnson c.stadler [at] delta-ii.de Christof Stadler Caedmontwo [at] aol.com Troy Caedmon Parsons cameron-mellor [at] deshaw.com Cameron Mellor cd [at] tps.de Charles Dapp Charles.Burton [at] evolving.com Chuck Burton chrismck [at] earthlink.net Christine McKenna Christian.Angerer [at] sea.ericsson.se Christian Angerer christopher.varlese [at] broadnet.ascom.ch Christopher Varlese ckf [at] majure.com Creighton K. Frommer clayberg [at] smalltalksystems.com Eric Clayberg coelho [at] dca.fee.unicamp.br Andre Luis Vasconcelos Coelho craig [at] scot.demon.co.uk Craig Cockburn crawley [at] dstc.edu.au Stephen Crawley crocker [at] cig.mot.com Ron Crocker CVilla [at] tekscan.com Charles W. Villa czerwonka [at] corbatech.com Andy L. Czerwonka dacut [at] ece.cmu.edu David A. Cuthbert daniel.sundman [at] usa.net Daniel Sundman danielp [at] interlog.com Daniel Parker Danny.Lingman.lingman [at] nt.com Dan Lingman dany.steyaert [at] ping.be Dany Steyaert DasBuro.Com!mfx [at] DasBuro.com Markus Freericks dave [at] goopot.demon.co.uk David Potts Dave.Murrells [at] ehv.ce.philips.com David Murrells davep [at] iisc.co.uk Dave Postill daver [at] teleport.com D Reynolds david [at] elqui.qant.ucl.ac.be David Massart david [at] farrar.com David Farrar david [at] pottage.demon.co.uk David Pottage rracine [at] draper.com Roger Racine rstamerjohn [at] QGRAPH.COM Ralph Stamerjohn rufinus [at] mbe.ece.wisc.edu J Rufinus russ_freeman [at] hotmail.com Russ Freeman rvaitk [at] soften.ktu.lt Raimundas Vaitkevicius s.sudik [at] larc.nasa.gov Steven Sudik safa [at] icrl.mew.co.jp Laurent SAFA salter [at] chrontech.com Steven Salter Sandy.Grosvenor [at] gsfc.nasa.gov Sandy Grosvenor sbo [at] psy.med.uni-muenchen.de Boris Schaefer schlegel [at] informatik.uni-rostock.de J=FCrgen Schlegelmilch schmidt [at] cs.wustl.edu Douglas C. Schmidt schuerig [at] acm.org Michael Schuerig seriakov [at] aha.ru George Seriakov sferris [at] tiny.net Scott M. Ferris sgb [at] praxis-cs.co.uk Stephen Bull shrum [at] hpnut.fc.hp.com Ken Shrum simon [at] icpdd.neca.nec.com.au Simon A. Crase simon.guest [at] roke.co.uk Simon Guest simonwillcocks [at] enterprise.net Simon Willcocks sintzoff [at] art.alcatel.fr Andr=E9 Sintzoff source [at] netcom.com David Harmon squeegee [at] concentric.net Stephen C. Gilardi srini_n1 [at] verifone.com Srinivasan N. srs [at] vuse.vanderbilt.edu Stephen R. Schach steve.banks [at] marketdatasys.com Steve Banks Susan.Allen [at] PSS.Boeing.com Susan A. Allen sven [at] sass.de Sven Sass swelham [at] mlswa.uk.lucent.com Stuart Welham tannhauser [at] crf.canon.fr Falk Tannh=E4user tc [at] gauss.muc.de Matthias Hoelzl thomas.land [at] rhein-main.net Thomas Land tmoore [at] celwave.com Thomas Moore tony.payton [at] gecm.com Tony Payton trajon [at] fred.net Jon Poletti travis [at] SEDSystems.ca Shane Travis treid [at] primenet.com Tom Reid tseaver [at] palladion.com Tres Seaver va [at] org.chemie.uni-frankfurt.de Volker Apelt vijay [at] CellNet.com Vijay Ramachandran vote-n-run [at] huug.demon.nl huug westphal [at] acm.org Frank Westphal wilba [at] bigfoot.com Alan Williams winkler [at] balancetechnology.com Peter K. Winkler wkdugan [at] ix.netcom.com Bill Dugan wolf.siberski [at] rwg.de Wolf Siberski wolfgang.poechgraber [at] sea.ericsson.se Wolfgang Poechgraber xanthian [at] well.com Kent Paul Dolan yardley [at] interlog.com Graham N. Yardley yCothouit [at] teaser.fr Domenikos Theotokopoulos yonat [at] email.com Ron Yonat yonat [at] usa.net Yonat Sharon zach [at] instantplanet.com Zach Baker Voted No ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ aj [at] arthur.rhein-neckar.de Andreas Jaeger AlanM [at] hpdi.demon.co.uk Alan Macro brownbear [at] earthdome.com Ira Brown capitaljo [at] fexnet.com Jodie Ballast Dale.A.Force [at] lerc.nasa.gov Dale Force dialysis [at] starplace.com Guy Marciano dringhof [at] linktrader.com Doc Ringhoff ell [at] access.digex.net Elliott Coates erigbadj [at] postmaster.co.uk Eric Badger fayet [at] nancy.inra.fr Guy FAYET ferret [at] enteract.com Karl Meyer Hein.Roehrig [at] cwi.nl Hein Roehrig hougen [at] cs.umn.edu Dean Hougen kimdv [at] best.com Kim DeVaughn knemeyer [at] ix.netcom.com Manfred Knemeyer laverno [at] pacbell.net La Vern R. Ogden madhusudhan.r.doddabele [at] lmco.com madhu olav [at] viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar phil [at] pfsystems.com Phil Stenson RBaker6223 [at] aol.com Ray Baker sean.duffy [at] goldengate.net Sean Duffy stainles [at] bga.com Dwight Brown territickle [at] heartthrob.com Terri DeSistoh wakelyn [at] pinn.net N. T. Wakelyn Abstained ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AshleyB [at] halcyon.com Ashley Yakeley chris [at] kzim.com Christopher Robin Zimmerman gjohnson [at] dream.season.com Gary Johnson murray-paul [at] usa.net Paul Murray rich [at] vax2.concordia.ca Rich Lafferty