From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 10.36.3.7 with SMTP id e7mr2218423ite.19.1515724321612; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 18:32:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.157.4.236 with SMTP id 99mr407416otm.10.1515724321427; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 18:32:01 -0800 (PST) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer02.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!g80no844338itg.0!news-out.google.com!b73ni10075ita.0!nntp.google.com!g80no844334itg.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 18:32:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8f2e0ccd-10c8-40c6-a2e4-6d17ba2bc250@googlegroups.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=73.93.142.181; posting-account=fxr6CwoAAABjARAbZ01okNaxDpxQT8RH NNTP-Posting-Host: 73.93.142.181 References: <0f1048d2-187c-4578-ae7b-d209e229bfbe@googlegroups.com> <8f2e0ccd-10c8-40c6-a2e4-6d17ba2bc250@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8f14b34f-41a9-41cc-a4e5-999853c5e3a3@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Simulating the rolling of dices to produce truly random numbers? From: Mace Ayres Injection-Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 02:32:01 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 2754 X-Received-Body-CRC: 1599795600 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:49877 Date: 2018-01-11T18:32:01-08:00 List-Id: On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 4:45:30 AM UTC-8, AdaMagica wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 10. Januar 2018 23:54:46 UTC+1 schrieb Mace Ayres: > > If I choose n among the set 1..500, based on my own sense of randomness= , is that random? >=20 > Depends on how you choose. If you take 500 cards and shuffle suffiently a= fter each choice, the outcome depends on your shuffling skills. Result migh= t be quite random. >=20 > However, if you just write them down in an arbitrary manner on a sheet of= paper, the result is definitely not random. I think we may be in different frames of reference, one defining randomness= within a machine/algorithmic frame; and the other from the human frame. In= either case, it is human judgement that gives the final approval of 'true'= randomness. In one case relying of the 'true' randomness of the machine al= gorithm; the other relies on what the human says is random. I think stuffin= g the deck is only relevant with multiple random picks,since the final elec= tion is determined where my hand selects a card, which is independent of an= y shuffle. I can can pick any one of a deck of cards, there is 1:52 chance = of getting any card. That is just as random as any algorithm, if we accept = that any mental process we have before picking is always random. I propose = that our thoughts and determination of which card to pick is ultimately ran= dom, though we may imagine that we can pick a card non randomly.