From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 10.129.14.213 with SMTP id 204mr6227955ywo.3.1498655242286; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 06:07:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.36.67.202 with SMTP id s193mr172055itb.9.1498655242228; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 06:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!1.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!2.us.feeder.erje.net!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!feeder.usenetexpress.com!feeder1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!v31no1224436qtb.0!news-out.google.com!s132ni626itb.0!nntp.google.com!185no1889959itv.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 06:07:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=165.225.16.231; posting-account=bMuEOQoAAACUUr_ghL3RBIi5neBZ5w_S NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.225.16.231 References: <1ac5a44b-4423-443a-a7bb-2864d9abe78f@googlegroups.com> <1498048151.20885.28.camel@obry.net> <96174ea5-852d-44e9-8535-7c1eb24d5326@googlegroups.com> <8d3aff06-82df-485f-89e5-a50c326aab05@googlegroups.com> <66aa262e-2ac9-4016-b32d-e9fee14779e1@googlegroups.com> <88e2f18a-0786-4303-a5b8-fe82e8c81dcb@googlegroups.com> <71c4fdcd-4213-4b84-b852-c8674cfaf717@googlegroups.com> <98197f40-9833-4bb8-87ca-1593d2da7c81@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <884baab5-9b5f-4c4b-8bea-300239ca4c96@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Ada Annoyances From: Maciej Sobczak Injection-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 13:07:22 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: news.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:47157 Date: 2017-06-28T06:07:21-07:00 List-Id: > >You cannot say it was ill-advised without knowing the context and purpos= e. >=20 > Of course I can. The purpose of the Initialize routine is to "fix-up" an= =20 > existing initialized object I can understand that, but the name of this procedure does not convey this = meaning. Even your own sentence above sounds illogical. > Again, the flaw in Ada here is that the purpose behind=20 > these routines (Initialize/Adjust/Finalize) isn't as obvious There seems to be an agreement here. > >Let's say I did consider it VERY carefuly. >=20 > Then you've also considered the negative side-effects Which I was not aware of until I was hit by them. (Interestingly, you could defend every single con of C++ the same way and u= ltimately prove that there are no problems with it. Beware, such arguments = are double-edged swords.) > But all I see here is you trying to prove that C++ is better than Ada. If= =20 > so, why are you wasting our time here? On the contrary. Actually, I'm an official Ada advocate at my workplace. Th= e problem is - you need to be *very* precise when discussing advantages of = one language over another and there is absolutely no chance you will ever c= onvince anybody to use Ada if you try to praise it by contrasting it with m= isunderstood flaws of C++ (or Java or whatever). In this very discussion I have seen multiple statements that C++ is broken = beyond all repair and the statement that particularly called my attention w= as about C++ being "untyped", while in fact the construction process there = is relatively well thought-out and designed to preserve the type safety, wh= ich I tried to demonstrate. Another statement was about inability of C++ to= suppress dispatching calls. This is when I have decided to play the devil'= s advocate and demonstrate that without proper arguments - and in particula= r without being fair and giving justice where it is due, you have no chance= of convincing anybody. Ada is an interesting language for large-scale deve= lopment, but it has its own share of language design flaws. It is unavoidab= le with such a long history, but at least be fair. > Go back to the evil empire To which one? :-) --=20 Maciej Sobczak * http://www.inspirel.com