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From: info-ada@ucbvax.UUCP
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Date: Thu, 5-Dec-85 20:45:20 EST
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8512060145.AA15597
Posted: Thu Dec  5 20:45:20 1985
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In article <8512040909.AA01814@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write:
>*<info-ada>archive.current
>radc-tops20
>ada
>hel-ace
>blyskal
>wisc-crys
>pb
>brl-bmd
>genesis
>wisc-rsch
>jerome
>ucla-cs
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>CCVAX.hesser
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>sdcsvax!bill
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>ari-hq1
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>ddn1
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>navtelcom
>ucla-locus
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>sri-kl
>denny
>mercado
>sarvela
>BillW
>Mathis
>mitre-bedford
>gte
>gah
>munck
>mcc
>Info-Ada
>bcr
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>nosc-tecr
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>CONTR23
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>ll-vlsi
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>RADC-MULTICS
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>cmu-cs-pt
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>wpafb-afita
>rgross
>lawlis
>pnagarse
>richard
>
>Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 01:00:22 PST
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>	id AA27910; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:48:47 PST
>Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT
>From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu  (Dick Dunn)
>Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document
>Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP>
>References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu>
>Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
>Errors-To: <info-ada-request@usc-eclb.arpa>
>To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa
>
>I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on
>what the folks here are up to.  The implications of the parent article are
>pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative.  I'll
>add a few cheap shots of my own:
>> ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group
>> within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating
>> a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."...
>What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?!  Are we
>so specialized?  (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada
>software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-)  To me,
>"Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub
>Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about
>plumbers.
>	If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet.
>(Whew!  There, I've said it; let the flames begin.)
>Lordy!  Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression
>of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages.  There's no sin in
>a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much
>importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea.  Would it
>be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for
>"Professionalism for Programmers"?
>> This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will
>> be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This
>> document must address management as well as technical personnel.
>But what is the problem?  It seems that someone is rushing off to create
>documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be
>busy about some matter which has yet to be stated.
>Perhaps I am being too kind.  Perhaps there is an epidemic of
>unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops,
>excuse me, software personnel.  Maybe the Ada world has problems that the
>rest of us don't?  (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious
>exploration of non-issues:-)
>But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel?
>> 1. A Professional License Exam
>By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for
>each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional
>specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx).
>> 2. Responsibility
>> 3. Code of Ethics
>> 4. Accountability
>These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific!  (Actually,
>I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly
>more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$
>than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect
>that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.)
>> 6. Job Titles/Categories
>What do the rest of you think?  Is it different than the rest of the
>industry?
>> 11. Internship
>FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?!
>> 12. Continuing Education
>ditto
>> 16. Professional Model
>> 17. Peer Review
>> 18. Censure and Appeal
>> 19. Best Programming Practice
>Don't you know how to deal with these matters?  Do it one-on-one; work with
>people.  There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't
>be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own
>judgment.
>> 20. Transition Strategy
>>From what to what?  (I have the feeling that there are still people who
>think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to
>do is convert to it.  If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're
>smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-)
>> 21. Major Professional Society
>...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the
>perpetrators of Ada have rejected them).  If the kids won't let you play,
>you can buy your own football, huh?
>> 22. Regulatory Board
>ooooof.  bureaucracy.  No more to say.
>-- 
>Dick Dunn	{hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd		(303)444-5710 x3086
>   ...Reality?  Gad, that's worse than puberty!


	Please cease this clutter !
						Larry Johnson
						ihnp4!cuae2!laj