From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,INVALID_DATE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!info-ada From: info-ada@ucbvax.UUCP Newsgroups: net.lang.ada Subject: Re: (none) Message-ID: <8512060137.AA15454@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> Date: Thu, 5-Dec-85 20:37:34 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8512060137.AA15454 Posted: Thu Dec 5 20:37:34 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 7-Dec-85 03:54:03 EST References: <8512050609.AA24463@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: AT&T - Warrenville Data Center, IL List-Id: In article <8512050609.AA24463@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write: >*archive.current > radc-tops20 >ada > hel-ace >blyskal > wisc-crys >pb > brl-bmd >genesis > wisc-rsch >jerome > ucla-cs >amiram > jpl-vlsi >august >larry >jplanderson > ibm-sj >alpern > oslo-vax >info-ada > nosc-f4 >bboard > su-sierra >bryan >haberler >rosenblum >pack >mendal > nrl-aic >bbd-info-ada > nosc >ccvax.jackie >elmer.jensen >hobler >ccvax.dukelow >jacoby >CCVAX.colborn >CCVAX.tokoro >CCVAX.hesser >CCVAX.johnd >sdcsvax!bill >sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada > ari-hq1 >charlie > ddn1 >dca-pgs >navtelcom > ucla-locus >ada-fans > sri-kl >denny >mercado >sarvela >BillW >Mathis > mitre-bedford >gte >gah >munck >mcc >Info-Ada >bcr >pjl >johnm > nosc-tecr >contr22 >CONTR23 >contr04 > ll-vlsi >glenn > dec-marlboro >kania >rehill > office-2 >kirk.tym > sri-unix >richard > lll-mfe >info-ada%lll >COLBORN%SAV > su-sushi >samuel >PACK > logicon >ada > cit-vax >engvax!info-ada > aids-unix >info-ada > rand-relay >info-ada.arizona > brl >info-ada > red.rutgers.edu >info-ada-bboard > drea-xx >info-ada > amsaa >jer > tl-20b >info-ada > decwrl >scherrer%gvaic3.dec >seki%tkov60.dec > oregon-grad >info-ada > darcom-hq >ada > denver >info-ada > ford-wdl1 >ada > gunter-adam >porter >DSDC-SDT2 > hi-multics >cornhill >gailly.ada >stachour >vaughanw >kamrad.cst >hkberg.cscswtec >eachus.nmlsppt >hi-info-ada > lanl >post-info-ada > usc-isi >isi-info-ada >DRUFFEL >GOODENOUGH > anl-mcs >dritz > usc-isid >inco > nbs-vms >kuhn >zelkowitz > mit-oz >egk >pao > simtel20 >rmathias >RCONN > NRL-CSS >info-ada > NYU >INFO_ADA > XEROX >"Info-Ada^.x" > bbn-clxx >mdean > RUTGERS >MCGRATH > S1-A >JMB > SU-AI >REP >DCL > sri-csl >bboard-info-ada > Berkeley >rhc%UCBJADE.CC >trwrb!trwspp!hal >trwrb!trwspp!colbert >trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden > Maryland >ada-bbd > RADC-MULTICS >Karlovic >Gilyeat > cornell >infoada > USC-ECL >LOCAL-INFO-ADA > USC-ECLB >HFISCHER > USC-ISIE >BERTAPELLE >NSCHNEIDEWIND >DKREBILL >SAC.8AFDPI >SAC.ADDA > USC-ISIB >HOLG > sri-spam >trudy > USC-ISIA >DEVCTR > BBNA >RSchaaf > sri-nic >info-ada-nic > UTAH-20 >INFO-ADA > WASHINGTON >DMJ >Sloan > CISL >Info-ADA%pco > DCA-EMS >Cleaveland > wsmr01 >hhamilto > lll-tis-b >info-ada-news > ECLB >BSCHAAR >eberard > cmu-cs-g >trk > harvard >info-ada-incoming > seismo >vrdxhq!info-ada > ucbdali >yee > eglin-vax >harbaughs > SRI-AI >GOHEEN > nscw-wo >jcavall > ACC >BBOARD.ADA > nprdc >info-ada-nprdc > Ames-VMSB >welch > udel >dist-info-ada > mitre-gateway >anderson > edwards-2060 >info-ada > pica-lca >kkramer > nswc-wo >cottrell > isia >mclaughlinjr > topaz >princeton!siemens!emery > cmu-cs-pt >cmu-info-ada > wpafb-afita >rgross >lawlis >pnagarse >richard > >Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 21:56:25 PST >Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 4 Dec 85 21:54:48-PST >Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7) > id AA24127; Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST >Date: Wed, 4 Dec 85 21:54:36 PST >From: ihnp4!mgnetp!wnuxb!laj@ucbvax.berkeley.edu >Message-Id: <8512050554.AA24127@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> >Received: by ihnp4.ATT.UUCP id AA24281; 4 Dec 85 23:35:10 CST (Wed) >To: mgnetp!info-ada >Subject: Re: (none) >Newsgroups: net.lang.ada >In-Reply-To: <8512022044.AA20490@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> >Organization: AT&T - Warrenville Data Center, IL >Cc: > > What is this garbage !!! > > And what is it doing on the net !!! > > Larry Johnson > ihnp4!wnuxb!laj > >>*archive.current >> radc-tops20 >>ada >> hel-ace >>blyskal >> wisc-crys >>pb >> brl-bmd >>genesis >> wisc-rsch >>jerome >> ucla-cs >>amiram >> jpl-vlsi >>august >>larry >>jplanderson >> ibm-sj >>alpern >> oslo-vax >>info-ada >> nosc-f4 >>bboard >> su-sierra >>bryan >>haberler >>rosenblum >>pack >>mendal >> nrl-aic >>bbd-info-ada >> nosc >>ccvax.jackie >>elmer.jensen >>hobler >>ccvax.dukelow >>jacoby >>CCVAX.colborn >>CCVAX.tokoro >>CCVAX.hesser >>CCVAX.johnd >>sdcsvax!bill >>sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada >> ari-hq1 >>charlie >> ddn1 >>dca-pgs >>navtelcom >> ucla-locus >>ada-fans >> sri-kl >>denny >>mercado >>sarvela >>BillW >>Mathis >> mitre-bedford >>gte >>gah >>munck >>mcc >>Info-Ada >>bcr >>pjl >>johnm >> nosc-tecr >>contr22 >>CONTR23 >>contr04 >> ll-vlsi >>glenn >> dec-marlboro >>kania >>rehill >> office-2 >>kirk.tym >> sri-unix >>richard >> lll-mfe >>info-ada%lll >>COLBORN%SAV >> su-sushi >>samuel >>PACK >> logicon >>ada >> cit-vax >>engvax!info-ada >> aids-unix >>info-ada >> rand-relay >>info-ada.arizona >> brl >>info-ada >> red.rutgers.edu >>info-ada-bboard >> drea-xx >>info-ada >> amsaa >>jer >> tl-20b >>info-ada >> decwrl >>scherrer%gvaic3.dec >>seki%tkov60.dec >> oregon-grad >>info-ada >> darcom-hq >>ada >> denver >>info-ada >> ford-wdl1 >>ada >> gunter-adam >>porter >>DSDC-SDT2 >> hi-multics >>cornhill >>gailly.ada >>stachour >>vaughanw >>kamrad.cst >>hkberg.cscswtec >>eachus.nmlsppt >>hi-info-ada >> lanl >>post-info-ada >> usc-isi >>isi-info-ada >>DRUFFEL >>GOODENOUGH >> anl-mcs >>dritz >> usc-isid >>inco >> nbs-vms >>kuhn >>zelkowitz >> mit-oz >>egk >>pao >> simtel20 >>rmathias >>RCONN >> NRL-CSS >>info-ada >> NYU >>INFO_ADA >> XEROX >>"Info-Ada^.x" >> bbn-clxx >>mdean >> RUTGERS >>MCGRATH >> S1-A >>JMB >> SU-AI >>REP >>DCL >> sri-csl >>bboard-info-ada >> Berkeley >>rhc%UCBJADE.CC >>trwrb!trwspp!hal >>trwrb!trwspp!colbert >>trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden >> Maryland >>ada-bbd >> RADC-MULTICS >>Karlovic >>Gilyeat >> cornell >>infoada >> USC-ECL >>LOCAL-INFO-ADA >> USC-ECLB >>HFISCHER >> USC-ISIE >>BERTAPELLE >>NSCHNEIDEWIND >>DKREBILL >>SAC.8AFDPI >>SAC.ADDA >> USC-ISIB >>HOLG >> sri-spam >>trudy >> USC-ISIA >>DEVCTR >> BBNA >>RSchaaf >> sri-nic >>info-ada-nic >> UTAH-20 >>INFO-ADA >> WASHINGTON >>DMJ >>Sloan >> CISL >>Info-ADA%pco >> DCA-EMS >>Cleaveland >> wsmr01 >>hhamilto >> lll-tis-b >>info-ada-news >> ECLB >>BSCHAAR >>eberard >> cmu-cs-g >>trk >> harvard >>info-ada-incoming >> seismo >>vrdxhq!info-ada >> ucbdali >>yee >> eglin-vax >>harbaughs >> SRI-AI >>GOHEEN >> nscw-wo >>jcavall >> ACC >>BBOARD.ADA >> nprdc >>info-ada-nprdc >> Ames-VMSB >>welch >> udel >>dist-info-ada >> mitre-gateway >>anderson >> edwards-2060 >>info-ada >> pica-lca >>kkramer >> nswc-wo >>cottrell >> isia >>mclaughlinjr >> topaz >>princeton!siemens!emery >> cmu-cs-pt >>cmu-info-ada >> wpafb-afita >>rgross >>lawlis >>pnagarse >>richard >> USC-ISIF >>EBERARD >> >>Received: FROM ADA-VAX.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 11:52:00 PST >>Received: from HI-MULTICS.ARPA by ADA-VAX via SMTP with TCP; Mon 2 Dec 85 07:00:38-PST >>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 08:56 CST >>From: "Paul D. Stachour" >>Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document >>To: VaughanW@HI-MULTICS.ARPA, info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA >>cc: "Edward V. Berard" >>In-Reply-To: Message of 1 Dec 85 20:04 CST from VaughanW >>Message-ID: <851202145648.806167@HI-MULTICS.ARPA> >> >> In one sense, Ada is indeed a "good" forum for discussing >>professionalism. There are many "requirements" on a Software >>Professional (for example, recovery from unexpected errors) that are >>"efectively impossible" in other languages (nothing similar to >>exceptions, with their raise/handle semantics) that are now possbile in >>Ada. Ada is a good tool that will, hopefully, enable those of us who >>consider ourselves professionals but have been unable :o perform the >>needed "good practices" due to the woeful lack of adequate facilities, >>to now perform professionally. >> [Those of you who know me well know that I believe that the primary >>action we as Software Professionals need to do is use good practices >>defined/designed/available in specialized environments rather than the >>JUNK most of us are forced to use. {Yes, Sturgeon's law applies here. >>At least 90% of the OS's/languages/... are so junky that it is nearly >>impossible to do a professional job.} ] >> It is indeed true that much of our "profession" is filled with >>amateurs; those of you who have access to a copy of E.Dijkstra's 1976 >>IFIP speech in Toronto understand why this is so, and why it will >>continue in an area that is growing far faster`than our poor ability to >>eduate and train. >> But in a larger sense, software professionalism is not only "Ada", >>though Ada can contribute well. It is also true that if we, as software >>professionals, do not begin to "police" ourselves, someone who knows >>even less about software will someday "pass stupid laws" to attempt >>regulation. >> I, thus am in a quandry. I know we need professionalism, but don't >>know a good way of achieving same. >> By the way, I know Bill Vaughan personally, and consider him one of >>the best software engineers I've ever met. I'd like to see his skills >>and knowledge spread, and would be very unhappy if somehow his ability >>to practice were "legislated-out-of-existance". ..Paul Please cease this clutter ! Larry Johnson ihnp4!cuae2!laj