From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_DATE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!info-ada From: info-ada@ucbvax.UUCP Newsgroups: net.lang.ada Subject: Re: (none) Message-ID: <8512060129.AA15305@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> Date: Thu, 5-Dec-85 20:29:52 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8512060129.AA15305 Posted: Thu Dec 5 20:29:52 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 7-Dec-85 20:15:08 EST References: <8512041641.AA08159@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: AT&T - Warrenville Data Center, IL List-Id: In article <8512041641.AA08159@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> you write: >*archive.current > radc-tops20 >ada > hel-ace >blyskal > wisc-crys >pb > brl-bmd >genesis > wisc-rsch >jerome > ucla-cs >amiram > jpl-vlsi >august >larry >jplanderson > ibm-sj >alpern > oslo-vax >info-ada > nosc-f4 >bboard > su-sierra >bryan >haberler >rosenblum >pack >mendal > nrl-aic >bbd-info-ada > nosc >ccvax.jackie >elmer.jensen >hobler >ccvax.dukelow >jacoby >CCVAX.colborn >CCVAX.tokoro >CCVAX.hesser >CCVAX.johnd >sdcsvax!bill >sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada > ari-hq1 >charlie > ddn1 >dca-pgs >navtelcom > ucla-locus >ada-fans > sri-kl >denny >mercado >sarvela >BillW >Mathis > mitre-bedford >gte >gah >munck >mcc >Info-Ada >bcr >pjl >johnm > nosc-tecr >contr22 >CONTR23 >contr04 > ll-vlsi >glenn > dec-marlboro >kania >rehill > office-2 >kirk.tym > sri-unix >richard > lll-mfe >info-ada%lll >COLBORN%SAV > su-sushi >samuel >PACK > logicon >ada > cit-vax >engvax!info-ada > aids-unix >info-ada > rand-relay >info-ada.arizona > brl >info-ada > red.rutgers.edu >info-ada-bboard > drea-xx >info-ada > amsaa >jer > tl-20b >info-ada > decwrl >scherrer%gvaic3.dec >seki%tkov60.dec > oregon-grad >info-ada > darcom-hq >ada > denver >info-ada > ford-wdl1 >ada > gunter-adam >porter >DSDC-SDT2 > hi-multics >cornhill >gailly.ada >stachour >vaughanw >kamrad.cst >hkberg.cscswtec >eachus.nmlsppt >hi-info-ada > lanl >post-info-ada > usc-isi >isi-info-ada >DRUFFEL >GOODENOUGH > anl-mcs >dritz > usc-isid >inco > nbs-vms >kuhn >zelkowitz > mit-oz >egk >pao > simtel20 >rmathias >RCONN > NRL-CSS >info-ada > NYU >INFO_ADA > XEROX >"Info-Ada^.x" > bbn-clxx >mdean > RUTGERS >MCGRATH > S1-A >JMB > SU-AI >REP >DCL > sri-csl >bboard-info-ada > Berkeley >rhc%UCBJADE.CC >trwrb!trwspp!hal >trwrb!trwspp!colbert >trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden > Maryland >ada-bbd > RADC-MULTICS >Karlovic >Gilyeat > cornell >infoada > USC-ECL >LOCAL-INFO-ADA > USC-ECLB >HFISCHER > USC-ISIE >BERTAPELLE >NSCHNEIDEWIND >DKREBILL >SAC.8AFDPI >SAC.ADDA > USC-ISIB >HOLG > sri-spam >trudy > USC-ISIA >DEVCTR > BBNA >RSchaaf > sri-nic >info-ada-nic > UTAH-20 >INFO-ADA > WASHINGTON >DMJ >Sloan > CISL >Info-ADA%pco > DCA-EMS >Cleaveland > wsmr01 >hhamilto > lll-tis-b >info-ada-news > ECLB >BSCHAAR >eberard > cmu-cs-g >trk > harvard >info-ada-incoming > seismo >vrdxhq!info-ada > ucbdali >yee > eglin-vax >harbaughs > SRI-AI >GOHEEN > nscw-wo >jcavall > ACC >BBOARD.ADA > nprdc >info-ada-nprdc > Ames-VMSB >welch > udel >dist-info-ada > mitre-gateway >anderson > edwards-2060 >info-ada > pica-lca >kkramer > nswc-wo >cottrell > isia >mclaughlinjr > topaz >princeton!siemens!emery > cmu-cs-pt >cmu-info-ada > wpafb-afita >rgross >lawlis >pnagarse >richard > >Received: FROM SIMTEL20.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 4 Dec 85 08:24:18 PST >Date: Wed 4 Dec 85 09:23:24-MST >From: Rick Conn >Subject: PDL Survey Results >To: ada-sw@SIMTEL20.ARPA >cc: info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA >Message-ID: <12164447055.19.RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA> > > Thanks to all who responded to my PDL survey. As we suspected >from the beginning, the results were inconclusive, but some information >which may be of interest came to light. The complete survey and all >responses is in PD:PDLSURVEY.DOC. > > Following is the forward to this file. > > Complete copies of the survey file will be emailed to the respondants. > > Rick > > >---- PDLSURVEY.DOC Foreword ---- > > DDN-Based Ada PDL Survey > 4 December 1985 > Richard Conn > > > A survey was conducted on the Defense Data Network in September to >November 1985 to determine what PDLs were currently in use by members of the >INFO-ADA and ADA-SW mailing list communities. It was expected that this survey >would not be conclusive in any way since (1) the survey audience was limited >and (2) of those who would receive the survey, only a few would respond. It >was hoped that the survey would, at the most, indicate if a definite trend >toward one particular PDL exists. > > I have concluded from the few (less than 10) responses received that >a trend toward one particular Ada PDL is NOT evident. There is some >indication that there is a desire to Ada PDLs internally, which will >result in a lack of standardization. > > Overview of responses: > > Identification of Ada PDL Number of Users > ------------------------- --------------- > ANNA by David Luckham 1 > Byron by Intermetrics 3 > Caine-Farber-Gordon PDL/81 1 > Internally-developed 4 > PDL/Ada by IBM 1 > > > Following are the responses received from the survey. They are >presented here because of their information content and the potential value >of this information to the community. > > >REFERENCE > Larry Lindley, Naval Avionics Center, "Survey of Ada-Based PDLs, >Final Report, January 1985," write to: > > Commanding Officer > Naval Avionics Center > 21st Street and Arlington Avenue > Indianapolis, IN 46218 > >Contract Number N00163-84C-0300, Done by Computer Technology Associates, Inc, >7927 Jones Branch Drive, Suite 600W, McLean, VA 22102 and Advanced Software >Methods, Inc, 17021 Sioux Lane, Gaithersburg, MD 20878 > > >DISCLAIMER > No endorsement of any particular Ada PDL or company is expressed, >or intended to be implied, by me in this forward. All content of this >forward is my own opinion and not necessarily that of anyone or any company >associated with me. > > Rick Conn > > > > >**** RESPONSE TO QUERY **** > >Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a023560; 27 Sep 85 3:55 EDT >Date: 27 Sep 1985 00:48-PDT >Sender: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA >Subject: [trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart): Re: Informa...] >From: HALHART@USC-ECLB.ARPA >To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA >Cc: HalHart@USC-ECLB.ARPA >Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]27-Sep-85 00:48:33.HALHART> >Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 08:07 CDT > >Received: from UCB-VAX.ARPA by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Wed 25 Sep 85 11:58:55-PDT > by UCB-VAX.ARPA (5.26/5.9) > id AA01992; Wed, 25 Sep 85 12:12:17 PDT >Date: 25 Sep 1985 0939-PDT (Wednesday) >From: trwrb!trwspp!spp1!hal@Berkeley.EDU (Hal Hart) >To: Richard_Conn >Cc: HalHart@eclb, trwrb!trwspp!Kerner@Berkeley.EDU, Kerner@eclb, > trwrb!trwspp!Belz@Berkeley.EDU >Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs >In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Sep 85 16:15 CDT. > <8509250048.AA16615@UCB-VAX.ARPA> >Return-Path: >Message-ID: <8509251639.AA03911@spp1.UUCP> > >Rick, > >TRW is using TRW's own Ada-based PDL (which we simply call >"Ada PDL") on 2 major projects (OSIS for the Navy, AMPE for >the AF(?)) & several medium or small projects. Plus, it will (would?) >be used on any of many other projects, of varying sizes, which >we have bid. > >I am not sure, but I think at least one TRW project (at a non- >California site) has used Intermetrics' Byron; at least, they >intended to try it out. > >I appreciate your trying to so "measure" popularity or >acceptability of various Ada-based PDLs, but as you suggest, >this will be hard. First, many of the Ada-based PDLs are >proprietary (esp. their suites of support tools), so they can >not possibly be used by more than 1 company. Also, number of >projects or, even better, aggregate dollar value or programs >sizes, might be a better measure which you would have little hope >of capturing. And, finally, it is certainly too early to start >drawing objective conclusions about the successes & failures of >these early usages (both due to future completion dates of large >projects & inevitable improvements to each PDL & its tools). > > -- Hal Hart, TRW > > >PS: I assume you are aware of the semi-yearly update of Ada PDLs >status which Judy Kerner publishes in Ada LETTERS. It includes >dozens of listings, & I know that she just early this month >completed her own canvass of every entry. Although her new matrix >probably won't appear in your mailbox for months, I suggest that >you request an advance copy from her (2 electronic addresses above). > > > > >**** RESPONSE TO QUERY **** > >Received: from nosc-tecr.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a002680; > 27 Sep 85 11:45 EDT >Date: 27 Sep 1985 0832-PST >From: Contr22 >Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs >To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY >Reply-To: CONTR22@NOSC-TECR >Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Fri, 27 Sep 85 13:41 CDT > >At Magnavox, we are using the Byron language from Intermetrics for all >AFATDS software. > >Linda Rising >Magnavox >Ft. Wayne, IN > > >**** RESPONSE TO QUERY **** > > >Received: from usc-eclb.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a010492; 29 Sep 85 21:40 EDT >Date: 29 Sep 1985 18:36-PDT >Sender: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB >Subject: Informal PDL Survey >From: CDONALDSON@USC-ECLB >To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY >Message-ID: <[USC-ECLB.ARPA]29-Sep-85 18:36:55.CDONALDSON> >Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Mon, 30 Sep 85 00:28 CDT > >Hello! > > I believe we met at the IEEE Ada as a PDL working group meeting >in Clairmont, California earlier this year ... I was representing >Harris Corporation. I was interested in your PDL survey for two >reasons: 1) I am currently doing work for Larry Lindley, and >2) I can give you some information on PDL usage at Harris > > Based on Christine Youngblut's findings in Larry's survey, I have >been desigining an experiment concerning the use of Ada PDLs for the >STARS Methodology Team. We are interested in the effect of PDL >characteristics on process and product quality. We have >decided to look at the effects of including some specific information >regarding requirements traceability, exception handling, and inter-unit >dependencies, the use of structured English in combination with Ada, >and the provision of special templates geared for the particular design >methodology to be used -- in this case Object-Oriented Design as >defined by Booch. The expeirment will consist of four teams of four >people each for six months, where they (each team) will design the >same problem using a different PDL, and implementing the problem in >Ada. Depending upon the results of the first phase, there will be >a second phase of the same length with two PDLs. If you are interested >I would be happy to send you a copy of the plan I prepared for Larry, >it is about 130 pages right now and so if you could send me your >mailing address I will forward it to you. I am always looking for >criticism/comments. > > Although I am soon to be leaving the company to work for Software >Productivity Solutions, I can tell you a little about use of PDLs, >especially Ada PDLs, at Harris. Of course, the Harris Ada PDL has >been used the most on a variety of projects. Because it is a complex >PDL supporting a very sophisticated methodology, it has not always >been well received. In addition, we used the PDL/Ada from IBM >on a project. No other Ada PDLs have been used at Harris, although >Caine Farber Gordon PDL/81 has been used and there is talk about >looking at their Ada style. > > I am very interested in the results of your survey since it >relates to work I am and will be doing for Larry, and would appreciate >your keeping me abreast of your findings. I am particularly interested >in any comments you receive on structured English, and of course the >explicit information I mentioned above (exceptions, requirements traceability, >inter-unit dependnecies). > > The experiment is a competitively procured contract (RFP out >now) expected to start up in January. > >Sincerely, > >Cammie Donaldson >305-242-5677 > > >**** RESPONSE TO QUERY **** > > >Received: from mitre-bedford.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a001561; > 9 Oct 85 13:41 EDT >Date: Wednesday, 25 Sep 1985 09:13-EDT >From: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA >To: conn%ti-eg.csnet@CSNET-RELAY.ARPA >Cc: cb@mitre-bedford.ARPA >Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs >In-reply-to: Your message of Tuesday, 24 Sep 1985 17:15-EDT. >Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Thu, 10 Oct 85 10:45 CDT > > We have a small project going here at MITRE which is using David >Luckham's ANNA annotation extensions to the Ada language as a Program >Design Language. ANNA was described in the March issue of IEEE Software. >We have been looking at how using a more formal Ada PDL affects what is >presented at a PDR and a CDR, as well as how much better the final system >looks. Currently we are in the middle of designing the system, we just had >a PDR review. > Christopher Byrnes > The MITRE Corporation > Burlington Road > M. S. A180T > Bedford, Mass. 01730 > > cb@Mitre-Bedford.ARPA > ...decvax!linus!bccvax!cb.UUCP > > >**** RESPONSE TO QUERY **** > > >Received: from mit-multics.arpa by CSNET-RELAY.ARPA id a016072; > 15 Oct 85 18:03 EDT >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 85 17:50 EDT >From: Avery%mit-multics.arpa@CSNET-RELAY >Subject: Re: Informal Survey on Ada PDLs >To: Richard_Conn >In-Reply-To: Message of 24 Sep 85 17:15 EDT from Richard_Conn >Message-ID: <851015215050.533981@MIT-MULTICS.ARPA> >Received: from csnet-relay by ti-eg; Wed, 16 Oct 85 07:44 CDT > > >Rick, > > GTE Government Systems has an internal Ada Design Language which is >used throughout the corporation. If you have any further questions or >need any further information, please contact Charlene Hayden. > > Hayden -at MIT-MULTICS > > > >**** RESPONSE TO QUERY **** > > Texas Instruments is developing its own Ada PDL. TI intends to use >this PDL internally and is considering marketing it, but no decision has been >made yet. TI has also used the Byron Ada PDL of Intermetrics internally on >a government contract. > > Rick Conn > > > Contact Alan Woody, Phone 214-952-2136, DDN Mail > WOODY%TI-EG@CSNET-RELAY, for questions > >------- Please cease this clutter ! Larry Johnson ihnp4!cuae2!laj