From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FROM_NO_USER, INVALID_DATE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!info-ada From: @USC-ISIF.ARPA, @USC-ECLB.ARPA:info-ada-request@usc-eclb Newsgroups: net.lang.ada Subject: (none) Message-ID: <8512040750.AA00440@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> Date: Wed, 4-Dec-85 02:50:38 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8512040750.AA00440 Posted: Wed Dec 4 02:50:38 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 5-Dec-85 08:06:22 EST Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The ARPA Internet List-Id: *archive.current radc-tops20 ada hel-ace blyskal wisc-crys pb brl-bmd genesis wisc-rsch jerome ucla-cs amiram jpl-vlsi august larry jplanderson ibm-sj alpern oslo-vax info-ada nosc-f4 bboard su-sierra bryan haberler rosenblum pack mendal nrl-aic bbd-info-ada nosc ccvax.jackie elmer.jensen hobler ccvax.dukelow jacoby CCVAX.colborn CCVAX.tokoro CCVAX.hesser CCVAX.johnd sdcsvax!bill sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada ari-hq1 charlie ddn1 dca-pgs navtelcom ucla-locus ada-fans sri-kl denny mercado sarvela BillW Mathis mitre-bedford gte gah munck mcc Info-Ada bcr pjl johnm nosc-tecr contr22 CONTR23 contr04 ll-vlsi glenn dec-marlboro kania rehill office-2 kirk.tym sri-unix richard lll-mfe info-ada%lll COLBORN%SAV su-sushi samuel PACK logicon ada cit-vax engvax!info-ada aids-unix info-ada rand-relay info-ada.arizona brl info-ada red.rutgers.edu info-ada-bboard drea-xx info-ada amsaa jer tl-20b info-ada decwrl scherrer%gvaic3.dec seki%tkov60.dec oregon-grad info-ada darcom-hq ada denver info-ada ford-wdl1 ada gunter-adam porter DSDC-SDT2 hi-multics cornhill gailly.ada stachour vaughanw kamrad.cst hkberg.cscswtec eachus.nmlsppt hi-info-ada lanl post-info-ada usc-isi isi-info-ada DRUFFEL GOODENOUGH anl-mcs dritz usc-isid inco nbs-vms kuhn zelkowitz mit-oz egk pao simtel20 rmathias RCONN NRL-CSS info-ada NYU INFO_ADA XEROX "Info-Ada^.x" bbn-clxx mdean RUTGERS MCGRATH S1-A JMB SU-AI REP DCL sri-csl bboard-info-ada Berkeley rhc%UCBJADE.CC trwrb!trwspp!hal trwrb!trwspp!colbert trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden Maryland ada-bbd RADC-MULTICS Karlovic Gilyeat cornell infoada USC-ECL LOCAL-INFO-ADA USC-ECLB HFISCHER USC-ISIE BERTAPELLE NSCHNEIDEWIND DKREBILL SAC.8AFDPI SAC.ADDA USC-ISIB HOLG sri-spam trudy USC-ISIA DEVCTR BBNA RSchaaf sri-nic info-ada-nic UTAH-20 INFO-ADA WASHINGTON DMJ Sloan CISL Info-ADA%pco DCA-EMS Cleaveland wsmr01 hhamilto lll-tis-b info-ada-news ECLB BSCHAAR eberard cmu-cs-g trk harvard info-ada-incoming seismo vrdxhq!info-ada ucbdali yee eglin-vax harbaughs SRI-AI GOHEEN nscw-wo jcavall ACC BBOARD.ADA nprdc info-ada-nprdc Ames-VMSB welch udel dist-info-ada mitre-gateway anderson edwards-2060 info-ada pica-lca kkramer nswc-wo cottrell isia mclaughlinjr topaz princeton!siemens!emery cmu-cs-pt cmu-info-ada wpafb-afita rgross lawlis pnagarse richard Received: FROM USC-ECLB.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 3 Dec 85 23:45:09 PST Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by USC-ECLB.ARPA; Tue 3 Dec 85 23:42:20-PST Received: by ucbvax.berkeley.edu (5.31/1.7) id AA27538; Tue, 3 Dec 85 21:22:05 PST Date: 3 Dec 85 10:15:41 GMT From: nbires!opus!rcd@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dick Dunn) Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document Message-Id: <275@opus.UUCP> References: <8511291449.AA03140@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu Errors-To: To: info-ada@usc-eclb.arpa I only follow net.lang.ada as a matter of curiousity and keeping tabs on what the folks here are up to. The implications of the parent article are pretty appalling; I'm glad the reaction has been generally negative. I'll add a few cheap shots of my own: > ...As chairperson of the SIGAda Issues Working Group (a working group > within the SIGAda Education Committee) I have been charged with creating > a "Strawman" document on "Professionalism for Ada Software Personnel."... What on earth can possibly be meant by "Ada Software Personnel"?!?! Are we so specialized? (Or is Ada so complex or so bad that you must be an Ada software person iff you are no other sort of software person?:-) To me, "Ada Software Personnel" has the same tenor as "Sink Personnel"/"Bathtub Personnel"/"Toilet Personnel" distinctions when we're talking about plumbers. If you can only program in one language, you can't program yet. (Whew! There, I've said it; let the flames begin.) Lordy! Ada is just another tired participant in the 25+ year progression of procedure-oriented/imperative/algorithmic languages. There's no sin in a language being in that category, but you can only impute so much importance to the 327th set of miniscule refinements of an idea. Would it be too much to ask for a set of criteria, if they're really needed, for "Professionalism for Programmers"? > This document must be in a form for publication by January 1986. It will > be discussed at the February 1986 Sigada meeting in Los Angeles. This > document must address management as well as technical personnel. But what is the problem? It seems that someone is rushing off to create documents (which are the wombs in which committees are conceived) to be busy about some matter which has yet to be stated. Perhaps I am being too kind. Perhaps there is an epidemic of unprofessional behavior which confines itself to Ada programmers...oops, excuse me, software personnel. Maybe the Ada world has problems that the rest of us don't? (If it does, I would guess it to be the overambitious exploration of non-issues:-) But what are the issues of concern to these Ada software personnel? > 1. A Professional License Exam By all means...and let's start licensing mechanics--separate licenses for each of socket, hammer, impact wrench, screwdrivers (with optional specialization in Phillips, flat, and for the experts, Torx). > 2. Responsibility > 3. Code of Ethics > 4. Accountability These sound like good things to be considered as Ada-specific! (Actually, I could be serious here--to the extent that the Ada community is visibly more tempted by the prospect of gouging the US government out of big $$$ than any other language-oriented community...but that is not an aspect that's likely to be of interest to the paper-generators.) > 6. Job Titles/Categories What do the rest of you think? Is it different than the rest of the industry? > 11. Internship FOR A SINGLE SILLY LANGUAGE?!?!?! > 12. Continuing Education ditto > 16. Professional Model > 17. Peer Review > 18. Censure and Appeal > 19. Best Programming Practice Don't you know how to deal with these matters? Do it one-on-one; work with people. There's nothing you can cast into rules and procedures that can't be done better and faster by clear-thinking individuals acting on their own judgment. > 20. Transition Strategy >From what to what? (I have the feeling that there are still people who think that Ada is the single language of the future and that all we have to do is convert to it. If there are, I'd like to know (1) what they're smoking and (2) where I can get some--a small quantity only.:-) > 21. Major Professional Society ...some of which have heartily rejected Ada (in response to the way the perpetrators of Ada have rejected them). If the kids won't let you play, you can buy your own football, huh? > 22. Regulatory Board ooooof. bureaucracy. No more to say. -- Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086 ...Reality? Gad, that's worse than puberty!