From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,INVALID_DATE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!ucbvax!info-ada From: Stachour.CSC_RP@HI-MULTICS.ARPA Newsgroups: net.lang.ada Subject: (none) Message-ID: <8512022044.AA20490@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> Date: Mon, 2-Dec-85 15:44:04 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8512022044.AA20490 Posted: Mon Dec 2 15:44:04 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 3-Dec-85 20:26:34 EST Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The ARPA Internet List-Id: *archive.current radc-tops20 ada hel-ace blyskal wisc-crys pb brl-bmd genesis wisc-rsch jerome ucla-cs amiram jpl-vlsi august larry jplanderson ibm-sj alpern oslo-vax info-ada nosc-f4 bboard su-sierra bryan haberler rosenblum pack mendal nrl-aic bbd-info-ada nosc ccvax.jackie elmer.jensen hobler ccvax.dukelow jacoby CCVAX.colborn CCVAX.tokoro CCVAX.hesser CCVAX.johnd sdcsvax!bill sdcsvax!telesoft!info-ada ari-hq1 charlie ddn1 dca-pgs navtelcom ucla-locus ada-fans sri-kl denny mercado sarvela BillW Mathis mitre-bedford gte gah munck mcc Info-Ada bcr pjl johnm nosc-tecr contr22 CONTR23 contr04 ll-vlsi glenn dec-marlboro kania rehill office-2 kirk.tym sri-unix richard lll-mfe info-ada%lll COLBORN%SAV su-sushi samuel PACK logicon ada cit-vax engvax!info-ada aids-unix info-ada rand-relay info-ada.arizona brl info-ada red.rutgers.edu info-ada-bboard drea-xx info-ada amsaa jer tl-20b info-ada decwrl scherrer%gvaic3.dec seki%tkov60.dec oregon-grad info-ada darcom-hq ada denver info-ada ford-wdl1 ada gunter-adam porter DSDC-SDT2 hi-multics cornhill gailly.ada stachour vaughanw kamrad.cst hkberg.cscswtec eachus.nmlsppt hi-info-ada lanl post-info-ada usc-isi isi-info-ada DRUFFEL GOODENOUGH anl-mcs dritz usc-isid inco nbs-vms kuhn zelkowitz mit-oz egk pao simtel20 rmathias RCONN NRL-CSS info-ada NYU INFO_ADA XEROX "Info-Ada^.x" bbn-clxx mdean RUTGERS MCGRATH S1-A JMB SU-AI REP DCL sri-csl bboard-info-ada Berkeley rhc%UCBJADE.CC trwrb!trwspp!hal trwrb!trwspp!colbert trwrb!trwspp!spp1!alden Maryland ada-bbd RADC-MULTICS Karlovic Gilyeat cornell infoada USC-ECL LOCAL-INFO-ADA USC-ECLB HFISCHER USC-ISIE BERTAPELLE NSCHNEIDEWIND DKREBILL SAC.8AFDPI SAC.ADDA USC-ISIB HOLG sri-spam trudy USC-ISIA DEVCTR BBNA RSchaaf sri-nic info-ada-nic UTAH-20 INFO-ADA WASHINGTON DMJ Sloan CISL Info-ADA%pco DCA-EMS Cleaveland wsmr01 hhamilto lll-tis-b info-ada-news ECLB BSCHAAR eberard cmu-cs-g trk harvard info-ada-incoming seismo vrdxhq!info-ada ucbdali yee eglin-vax harbaughs SRI-AI GOHEEN nscw-wo jcavall ACC BBOARD.ADA nprdc info-ada-nprdc Ames-VMSB welch udel dist-info-ada mitre-gateway anderson edwards-2060 info-ada pica-lca kkramer nswc-wo cottrell isia mclaughlinjr topaz princeton!siemens!emery cmu-cs-pt cmu-info-ada wpafb-afita rgross lawlis pnagarse richard USC-ISIF EBERARD Received: FROM ADA-VAX.ARPA BY USC-ISIF.ARPA WITH TCP ; 2 Dec 85 11:52:00 PST Received: from HI-MULTICS.ARPA by ADA-VAX via SMTP with TCP; Mon 2 Dec 85 07:00:38-PST Date: Mon, 2 Dec 85 08:56 CST From: "Paul D. Stachour" Subject: Re: Ada Professionalism Document To: VaughanW@HI-MULTICS.ARPA, info-ada@USC-ISIF.ARPA cc: "Edward V. Berard" In-Reply-To: Message of 1 Dec 85 20:04 CST from VaughanW Message-ID: <851202145648.806167@HI-MULTICS.ARPA> In one sense, Ada is indeed a "good" forum for discussing professionalism. There are many "requirements" on a Software Professional (for example, recovery from unexpected errors) that are "efectively impossible" in other languages (nothing similar to exceptions, with their raise/handle semantics) that are now possbile in Ada. Ada is a good tool that will, hopefully, enable those of us who consider ourselves professionals but have been unable to perform the needed "good practices" due to the woeful lack of adequate facilities, to now perform professionally. [Those of you who know me well know that I believe that the primary action we as Software Professionals need to do is use good practices defined/designed/available in specialized environments rather than the JUNK most of us are forced to use. {Yes, Sturgeon's law applies here. At least 90% of the OS's/languages/... are so junky that it is nearly impossible to do a professional job.} ] It is indeed true that much of our "profession" is filled with amateurs; those of you who have access to a copy of E.Dijkstra's 1976 IFIP speech in Toronto understand why this is so, and why it will continue in an area that is growing far faster than our poor ability to eduate and train. But in a larger sense, software professionalism is not only "Ada", though Ada can contribute well. It is also true that if we, as software professionals, do not begin to "police" ourselves, someone who knows even less about software will someday "pass stupid laws" to attempt regulation. I, thus am in a quandry. I know we need professionalism, but don't know a good way of achieving same. By the way, I know Bill Vaughan personally, and consider him one of the best software engineers I've ever met. I'd like to see his skills and knowledge spread, and would be very unhappy if somehow his ability to practice were "legislated-out-of-existance". ..Paul