From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,71d1fdde81c072f8 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: Richard D Riehle Subject: Re: Computer Programming for Everybody? Date: 1999/09/27 Message-ID: <7sofoo$8d2@dfw-ixnews19.ix.netcom.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 529986059 References: <7rbkm4$pn6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7rikv9$ibg3@ftp.kvaerner.com> <7rjceh$92t@dfw-ixnews15.ix.netcom.com> <37DED9FE.9A882C2C@mitre.org> <7ronav$shf@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <37E92BB5.3C2DB9BB@mitre.org> Organization: Netcom X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Sep 27 2:15:36 PM CDT 1999 X-Inktomi-Trace: sji-ca-cache 938459715 22139 209.109.232.38 (27 Sep 1999 19:15:15 GMT) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1999-09-27T14:15:36-05:00 List-Id: In article <37E92BB5.3C2DB9BB@mitre.org>, "Robert I. Eachus" wrote: [snipped your opening comment ] > The problem with learning BASIC as a first programming language is >that the limits it imposes on the way people think can persist for >years. Yes. This is the very same problem we have with people whose first language is English. They learn bad habits that make it difficult for them to reason about ideas for much of their life. Some never do get past this handicap. :-) [ snipped a few lines ] > > Also, we have a very, very serious problem developing and I don't >know what we (as industry and academia) can do about it. There is still >a significant need for software engineers that know how to program in >assember, or how to read assembly language. But most of the young >people who are learning assembly code are hackers and/or crackers. But >the jobs that need to be filled are concentrated in the safety-critical >software field... Agree, Robert. Dr. Dewar once presented a little summary of the absolute number of programmers using various languages. He suggested that the absolute number for assembler programmers has not changed even though their relative number has diminished. Assembler is especially critical in the world of microcontrollers where Ada has no significant role. For example, I-8051 programmers continue to prefer Assembler (sometimes Forth) over C for serious projects. These microncontrollers are increasingly finding their way into safety critical software applications. > I'd like to see something like the old NSF summer programs, where >the first summer students learn programming in Ada, Pascal, or some >other language that favors software engineering as well as something >about Web progamming. The second summer they should do some serious >assembler programming or the equivalent. (What ever happened to PL/M?) PL/M actually gets used now and then for eight-bit applications. There are some dedicated PL/M programmers still hiding out here in Silicon Valley. Perhaps their absolute number is also the same as it has been for many years. Richard Riehle http://www.adaworks.com >-- > > Robert I. Eachus > >with Standard_Disclaimer; >use Standard_Disclaimer; >function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...