From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,73cb216d191f0fef X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Received: by 10.180.106.73 with SMTP id gs9mr6518026wib.2.1363259828905; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:17:08 -0700 (PDT) X-FeedAbuse: http://nntpfeed.proxad.net/abuse.pl feeded by 88.191.116.97 Path: bp2ni91552wib.1!nntp.google.com!feeder1-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder2-2.proxad.net!nntpfeed.proxad.net!dedibox.gegeweb.org!gegeweb.eu!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Is this expected behavior or not Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:18:40 +0100 Organization: cbb software GmbH Message-ID: <7jct0noryc1v.1rnj5kkzx6m35.dlg@40tude.net> References: <8klywqh2pf$.1f949flc1xeia.dlg@40tude.net> <513f6e2f$0$6572$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net> <513faaf7$0$6626$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net> <51408e81$0$6577$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net> <1xqmd3386hvns.1og1uql2cgnuf$.dlg@40tude.net> <5140b812$0$6575$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net> <5140f1ad$0$6634$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net> Reply-To: mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de NNTP-Posting-Host: FbOMkhMtVLVmu7IwBnt1tw.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1 X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: 2013-03-14T12:18:40+01:00 List-Id: On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:37:49 +0100, Georg Bauhaus wrote: > On 13.03.13 20:28, Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > >>> Ada subtypes are not ADTs. Which is the point. >> >> And the difference is? > > Several: > Incomparable. > In Ada, ADT is not defined. How exactly Ada's Positive is not an abstract data type? >>>> Well, well, according to you Ada's Positive has -1 as a value? >>> >>> The Ada type of Positive includes -1 as a value. >> >> This is where ARM becomes relevant again: >> >> ARM 3-2(8/2): > > ARM 3.2(8/2) implies that "the type of Positive includes the value -1" > (the type of Positive is not the subtype Positive). We don't talk about Positive'Base. We do about Positive. > Let me see if I understand the claim that a subtype declarations is > a type-algebraic operation correctly, with Ada in mind: > > One starts from types to produce new types. > > type V is array (S) of T; > > declares a new type (and its ...). But > > subtype V is Integer range -2 .. +34; > > does not declare a new type (LRM 3.2.2(1)). Nevertheless Positive'Base /= Positive and both are types. >> You are welcome to show how problems of substitutability get solved without >> these explanations. > > There is no substitutability issue whatsoever for parameters of 'Succ > because 'Succ is not defined in terms of types that could introduce the > problem. I don't understand. What is defined, in which terms, what introduces or not problems? > This definition may not be as desired, Definition of what? >> It is not a problem of definitions. > > Is it *solely* a problem of definitions from the non-Ada world. So, it is prime numbers which are broken. Good to know... >> I shown that objects of Integer and Positive have different properties. > > The difference is entirely a consequence of different constraints on the > same type that Integer and Positive share. Irrelevant. The difference is here. Period. > I wondered why you have avoided the word "type" here and use "properties" > instead? You objected the word type. Call it "task" if you want to. It is still not Integer. -- Regards, Dmitry A. Kazakov http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de