From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: a07f3367d7,cc3c5a58c46ea9c4 X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,public,usenet X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Received: by 10.224.110.68 with SMTP id m4mr6258216qap.2.1363892911014; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.27.42 with SMTP id q10mr636590igg.1.1363892910976; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Path: k8ni8560qas.0!nntp.google.com!dd2no5546663qab.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 12:08:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=69.20.190.126; posting-account=lJ3JNwoAAAAQfH3VV9vttJLkThaxtTfC NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.20.190.126 References: <21ad4ef7-0e4a-40ba-ac3f-fe21018c7bd9@googlegroups.com> <1b0r595r7mo50.5ixrxomanvxr$.dlg@40tude.net> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7dbb0f14-c059-45ab-9eda-2782cb3edcc3@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Runtime startup code for the GNAT Runtime...and a bit of humble pie. From: Shark8 Injection-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:08:31 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: 2013-03-21T12:08:30-07:00 List-Id: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:16:04 PM UTC-6, Randy Brukardt wrote: >=20 > Clearly, the sockets library that never got a real proposal would have=20 > helped a bit (mostly for server-side work) on the network end. Having to = use=20 > some implementation-defined thing (Gnat.Sockets, Claw.Sockets) or=20 > off-the-web freebee (like NCSockets) doesn't help anything. Of course, I= =20 > don't seem much hope for Ada running in a web browser. Funny you should mention that; there's a site I came across a while back wh= ich illustrated using Ruby (and a Java Applet) to run a script-tag w/ Ruby = as its language. Demo: http://ruby-in-browser.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/evalruby/index.htm= l Site: http://almaer.com/blog/running-ruby-in-the-browser-via-script-type= textruby I'll disagree with your "no hope" on browsers. Ada's tasking/protected-obje= cts is something that I think most web-developers would love (even if they = don't know it) because much of what they're doing w/ AJAX is better/more-ea= sily expressed in that manner. -- And it would bring one thing they don't r= eally realize they're missing: type-checking. > (Personally, I think=20 > this is a good thing, I don't think much of anything should be allowed to= =20 > run in a browser for security reasons. But I'm clearly going to be in a= =20 > minority on this.) I rather agree; except that to do what they're doing now HTML/Javascript/HT= TP is a bad combination: HTML isn't meant for a page's design/format-layout= , HTTP doesn't have a good bidirectional/session mode [like, say, DSA parti= tions], Javascript is... LISP ruined by the C-Syntax -- not really suitable for pas= sing typed data in client/server ala AJAX (due to its untyped & EXTREME lat= e-bound nature finding bugs is more difficult). > I'm not quite sure what you mean by "changes in hardware architecture". T= he=20 > mainstream architechures are well-supported by Ada (there is very little = in=20 > multi-core that wasn't already anticipated by Ada, as Ada was designed fo= r=20 > multi-processor architectures and there isn't much different). Most of th= e=20 > problem areas are less with the language and more with the implementation= s. I'm fully agreed w/ you here. I find the current multi-processor hype/conce= rn to be rather amusing in that it's been solved/addressed for over thirty = years >=20 > In any case, your overall point is quite correct. To a large extent, this= is=20 > an implementation problem more than a language problem, but most people= =20 > can't separate the two and in the final analysis, the distinction doesn't= =20 > matter much. Sadly true. Though I would like to see this drive for bare-metal runtimes b= ear some good fruit. (And hopefully stimulate Adacore to improve GNAT's too= lchain.) > If people want to run their program mostly in a browser,=20 > nothing is going to help them much (because they're on the road to hell,= =20 > they just don't know it yet); certainly, there is no way to bring the=20 > advances in static analysis that reenforce Ada to that area (at best we= =20 > could combine an Ada back-end with a Javascript front-end in some tool, b= ut=20 > I really wonder if the result would have many of the advantages of Ada le= ft.=20 The Ada-jvm compiler: we could have secure/stable applets, and cause a resu= rgence there, maybe. Though maybe an Ada-javascript translator could help, perhaps even turning = AJAX into saner PO/tasks. >=20 > It's a project I'd be willing to try if there was a supporter for it.) Which project?