From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f5d71,d275ffeffdf83655 X-Google-Attributes: gidf5d71,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,d275ffeffdf83655 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,d275ffeffdf83655 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 146b77,d275ffeffdf83655 X-Google-Attributes: gid146b77,public From: robert_dewar@my-dejanews.com Subject: Re: Ada vs C++ vs Java Date: 1999/02/10 Message-ID: <79s23i$ena$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 442785793 References: <369C1F31.AE5AF7EF@concentric.net> <369DDDC3.FDE09999@sea.ericsson.se> <369e309a.32671759@news.demon.co.uk> <77ledn$eu7$1@remarQ.com> <77pnqc$cgi$1@newnews.global.net.uk> <8p64spq5lo5.fsf@Eng.Sun.COM> <77t3ld$nou$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <79ce4s$lfq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <79chc7$ko6@drn.newsguy.com> <79dodb$rhf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <79fm3e$ffs$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <79oj6d$eg8$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x3.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 205.232.38.14 Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Feb 10 13:37:55 1999 GMT Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++,comp.vxworks,comp.lang.java X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (OS/2; I) Date: 1999-02-10T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article , Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen wrote: > > To me this still looks like an argument against > standardization of functions. If you don't get any > advantages by standardization, why bother? VERY muddled thinking. Your argument goes like this Dewar does not think sort should be standardized. Sort is a function Therefore Dewar does not think functions should be standardized. Well, a classical example of a faulty syllogism. I will add it to my set of such examples for teaching! In fact of course I think it is very important to standardize library functions. I think for example that it is horrible that C++ has no standardized functions for dealing with concurrency or with interfacing to other languages. Of course I could play the game of writing a five line Ada program that cannot be duplicated in standard C++ using either of these features, but that would prove nothing of itself. Everyone agrees that a certain minimum set of libraries should be part of a language standard. The issue for a particular functionality here is what status it should have: 1. Be part of the primary standard 2. Be part of a secondary standard 3. Not be standardized No one is so foolish as to think that every possible function should be standardized. I do not make the mistake of assuming that since Ole-Hjalmar thinks that sorting should be in category 1, it means that he thinks this! So the issue is not one of general principles here AT ALL. It is a detailed discussion of which category a particular functionality falls into. The C++ and Ada standards both made decisions in this area, quite different sets of decisions, which leave different sets of functionality in the standard. I happen to think that in general Ada made the better set of choices here, but general claims like this are not really usefull arguable anyway, so may as well be left moot. What is productive is to argue about specific cases. The interesting thing is that Ole-Hjalmar in this exchange has not given even a single reason why sort in particular should be standardized. Merely showing an example that says 1) if X is standardized, then we will be able to write a short standard program performing function X is not any kind of argument at all, you might equally well argue for the inclusion of a special function for converting HTML files to postscript ("look how short this standard program for converting HTML to postscript is, bet you can't do that in language X!") On the other hand, some cogent arguments for NOT standardizing sort have been presented. Certainly no one writing Ada programs has to rewrite a sort algorithm from scratch. There is a large library of standard sort routines to choose from, and you choose the one that fits your needs best. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own