From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 10.182.22.45 with SMTP id a13mr9729695obf.5.1420774807084; Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:40:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.231.162 with SMTP id th2mr83729obc.21.1420774806837; Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:40:06 -0800 (PST) Path: border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!h15no1308353igd.0!news-out.google.com!qk8ni1868igc.0!nntp.google.com!h15no1638562igd.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 19:40:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=73.46.72.234; posting-account=yiWntAoAAAC1KqC_shmxJYv07B9l6LNU NNTP-Posting-Host: 73.46.72.234 References: <87bnmetex4.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> <4ae7f0d5-d681-4be9-95bc-b5e789b3ad40@googlegroups.com> <87tx06rve6.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> <87lhlirpk0.fsf@ludovic-brenta.org> <79f3eff7-2b45-40ae-af94-fa9a17426d82@googlegroups.com> <87bnmd8mg2.fsf@ixod.org> <19cf9bc2-f8b9-4735-b427-7b070dda59da@googlegroups.com> <72ede803-e2e9-4e21-a415-457374bef87d@googlegroups.com> <1337ca4c-a19e-468e-bc07-5412438f662b@googlegroups.com> <17ad25fe-e04f-4d79-a622-0b2455c150a0@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <724c3565-8fb0-446a-affe-22ea2b86d08f@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: GNAT GPL is not shareware From: David Botton Injection-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 03:40:06 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: number.nntp.giganews.com comp.lang.ada:191801 Date: 2015-01-08T19:40:06-08:00 List-Id: > 5,000,000 copies. How many were non-DoD, they don't count, they had to us it. > Stuff like=20 > program correctness is just too hard to be built by few people in their= =20 > spare time. And so the DoD, Apple and others invested/invest and for their own motives = require their efforts end in a way to benefit the masses to create trickle = up. > Since the ideas are ways to make software development better, there is=20 > nothing else to monitize. I'm not remotely interested in developing softw= are for people that aren't already computer experts -- it's hard enough to = please people that understand you and with which you have something in com= mon. The "secret" to a great product is to only produce what you yourself want t= o use and have passion for. The only things I've regretted in my life are t= he few times I worked for the money and not for the passion of the product = itself and those times _hurt_ me. May you be lucky enough in life to never have to and may we always share wi= th you the things you do for their own sake :) Since the RM is fantastic (I= learned Ada from it and use it constantly, I can't say that about any othe= r language and most of my life's coding has not been in Ada) I can only ass= ume you enjoy working on it and the other projects of yours we enjoy. > You're probably right. As far as I can tell, there is no remaining busine= ss=20 > model for anything that I am competent at or care about. No, you just need to partner with someone that can share your passion, but = perhaps not your skills, and has the skills to monitize it. Build your passion first, monitize later. > Anything that one could do will be copied or even stolen before it could = be brought to market. If what you did was with passion and for its own sake, then it will work an= yways. Almost every major startup that has succeeded never hid what it was = doing before it was done. In the current market of libre software, since your code is not the product= anyways it really doesn't matter at all if some one copied or "stole" it. > Indeed, I don't understand why you think Gnoga will be good for Ada beyon= d=20 > an improvement for the existing believers. After all, if the model is so= =20 > good, someone will copy it for C++ or Java, and they'll get the trade pre= ss=20 > for it, and [almost] everyone will think that the people who copied it=20 > invented it. If I was thinking about "money" I would have written Gnoga in Python. (I wo= uldn't respect myself in the morning though...) I wrote gnoga in Ada because I enjoy coding in Ada. I wrote Gnoga because I want Gnoga and need it for me. I publish Gnoga as Open Source because I want others to enjoy the music. I publish in GMGPL because that will benefit Ada and other developers If the business models (I've only shared a bit here and there with anyone) = work out then my investment pays with cash too and for everyone (win win) a= nd if it doesn't I sang my music even if only I enjoyed it and did what I c= ould to help Ada _and_ the Ada community beyond the niche (win win). > Of course, if the model doesn't pan out, then it'll be just another faile= d=20 > technology. What's wrong with failed tech, some parts of the song will be sung again (i= f OpenSource), perhaps in a remix :) If Gem (~1985) was OpenSource we would never have had to suffer with Window= s now... > I haven't wanted to discourage you in any way from developing Gnoga, whic= h=20 > is mainly why I haven't brought this up sooner. No worries, it wouldn't discourage me. I only count a friend someone that w= ill tell me I'm wrong (or try to :) > But from the moment I read=20 > about it, I thought that it doesn't have much chance to be a game-changer= ,=20 > because anything one guy can do in a man-year can be copied by another gu= y=20 > in half that time (the tough work is done, after all). Hope I'm wrong. I'll be happy to meet that guy if he has Botton sized passion :) We'd make = a good team or epic adversaries and then eventually probably a team anyways= unless he was e.v.i.l. And if someone just steals my code? You can't steal libre code (you can abu= se its license....). The opposite I want it to grow and happy if others add= their water or re-plant it. I think better as a team, but if they have eno= ugh passion to do it. maybe I'll use their expanded version over my own :) > Sadly, that's how I've treated Ada for the last 10+ years. Hope that it= =20 > lasts until I reach retirement. If I can help it, Ada will :)=20 (I don't even care how pompous that sounds, if I can't believe I will make = a difference for Ada (and that has happened before...) I wouldn't bother wi= th it.) > There is very little in what passes for computing these days that I can= =20 > stand to look at. Most of what would be required to "expand ones skill se= t"=20 > would require checking my brain at the door and making unmaintainable=20 > mash-ups of stuff that will stop working in a week (not the 20 years I wa= nt=20 > to run a program). You have the talent, do it for you! > Well, if you mean learning to be a Wal-Mart greeter, perhaps you're right= .=20 > Otherwise, I don't see it, because the vast majority of these machines wi= ll=20 > be self-repairing and eventually even self-constructing. So perhaps you should start writing the code to make that happen as your ex= pansion :) > Yup. However, it only beautiful when people have left their grubby hands = off=20 > of it. And unfortunately, there is no market for hermits. :-) Not true at all. You would be surprised how many of them are doing very wel= l :) > As far as I can tell, I've never possessed any of these things except for= =20 > passion > (I'd put the equation at: > Ignorance + ego + previous experience with small business + passion = +=20 > luck =3D Success) > ...and the passion and luck were squeezed out years ago by Open Source an= d=20 > the takeover of the computer business by massive corps -- essentially=20 > catching the real innovators in a vice. When your formula isn't succeeding it is a sign that it has bugs. Try mine = it doesn't have aspects and fancy stuff like that, but its been debugged an= d run enough years to be considered proven stable. > Not that I expect anyone to feel sorry for me. There are no real second= =20 > chances, and a lot of people never even get a first chance. I respect you too much to ever consider feeling sorry for you. I like you e= nough to maybe even to give you a kick if I see you in person again :) When I treat a patient, sometimes the next time I see them they say the pai= n moved from place X to place Y. I'm thrilled. Because as long as there is = change, they are already getting better. On thing leads to another in life, so even if the next Open Source Ada proj= ect _you_ do isn't the one that brings the fame and fortune, where it leads= you next will and at the least you've enjoyed making (in your case one mor= e) difference for Ada. David Botton