From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 111d6b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid111d6b,public X-Google-Thread: 10d15b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid10d15b,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,8775b19e3c68a5dc X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1094ba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1094ba,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public From: stevens@adam.dseg.ti.com (Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **) Subject: Re: Philosophers Date: 1998/02/06 Message-ID: <6bfbea$934@sf18.dseg.ti.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 322647588 Sender: stevens@adam.dseg.ti.com (Harold Stevens) References: <67et6o$dql@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <34C9F3D0.6B5A@erols.com> <6ao78n$52r@mrpibb.eng.umd.edu> <34D120D3.6B18@erols.com> <6bco4k$1or@periodic.eng.umd.edu> Organization: Raytheon TI Systems Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.cobol,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.ada Date: 1998-02-06T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In <6bco4k$1or@periodic.eng.umd.edu>, Warren B. Focke: [Snip...] |> Loth as I am to continue a subthread that has drifted so far I apologize myself, but having something to add... :) [Snip...] |> Truth has nothing to do with it. It's about developing theories that |> successfully predict experimental results. One might find the truth |> through such methods, but could never know (through those methods) that |> one had done so. [Snip...] When I was taking programming classes (eons ago :) ) we were required to put time into "lab" assignments. I found that at first ironic, as I came to that study mostly to ease my toiling at tedious computations in other classes of chemistry, physics, engineering, etc. To call a deterministic system like a computer program a "lab" seemed at first simplistic. After a few times tearing my hair out over these DWIMNWIS (Do What I Mean, Not What I Say) codes, I begin to relearn that subtle distinction between an insight and truth. My insight about what some program *should* do had at best a partial relation to what it *would* do in truth. Sometimes I just had not a clue why a code worked at all (and especially when working the codes of others), and often took their validity on--for lack of a better word--faith as demonstrated in its *utility* in the real world. Facing a deadline of the class project (or later a system port) at 2:30 AM, I was the humbled seeker of completeness, rather than truth. :) The "dance" of truth, faith, reality, politics, and experience was quite eloquently expressed in the movie "Contact" for me. The shock that we're not the center of this world, and that intelligence is often embedded in apparently chaotic phenomena, seems eternally human. Digital technology, such as networks, cryptology, OLAP/Imaging, and artificial intelligence, for a few, feature prominently in the film. They're tools of insight but should not be abused for *truth*. It is our human insecurities and egos, especially expressed in politics (including religious fanaticism), which obscure the pursuit of truth. And as this story demonstrates, you cannot use the tools of the skeptic to "prove" *experience* (observations) that these same tools suggest or even "provide" you later. Often your hardest battle is not *personal* but rather *political* in both the discovery as well as the postfacto interpretation of "truth" or reality. Sorry for the off topic rant, but I believe the creative experience that coding offers is art imitating life and illustrating a paradox: skeptics are the only *realistic* truth seekers alive. :) And if you haven't, see "Contact" and really derail this thread. :) Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) ** IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO ** 1. As antispam, I have completely disabled my "adam" email account. 2. Please vent inconvenience at Cyberpromo and their Satanic spawn. 3. You might try finding (wyrd) at ti, dotted with com. NO UCE/UBE. 4. I detest UCE/UBE. I support CAUCE; http://www.cauce.org HR 1748. Standard Disclaimer: My opinions alone and not Raytheon TI Systems.