From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD, FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,595c75298fbdce96 X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Midoan Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Is Aunit helpful? Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 02:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <6b7a14bc-8c7b-4e53-816f-c69213fba1a3@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> References: <8a1e58c0-2330-4475-8013-97df103dd85e@o19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <82r5ids1o9.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <20100805211820.52c18cb5.tero.koskinen@iki.fi> <8d166cfb-4850-42b6-ac25-d9ac00df7565@q35g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <82ocd5wukf.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <3957496a-af4b-45f5-87c9-327b22d19f08@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> <82eie0vzyd.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <32dc1191-0a83-40ef-8bbc-a13a06f2167e@u26g2000yqu.googlegroups.com> <82iq3bugxa.fsf@stephe-leake.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 188.141.92.189 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1281949344 20175 127.0.0.1 (16 Aug 2010 09:02:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:02:24 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=188.141.92.189; posting-account=X24XNwoAAACSn_ecescZSCM9-2ONsCM_ User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/6.0.472.33 Safari/534.3,gzip(gfe) Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:13392 Date: 2010-08-16T02:02:24-07:00 List-Id: On Aug 16, 8:59=A0am, Stephen Leake wrote: > Midoan writes: > >> Midoan writes: > >> > On Aug 14, 6:57=A0am, Stephen Leake > >> > wrote: > > >> How can a tool possibly generate expected results? If it reads the cod= e, > >> it can only generate the results that the code _will_ produce. But > >> that's the opposite of a test; the expected results are what the code > >> _should_ produce, based on some other spec (not the Ada spec). A testi= ng > >> process _must_ assume the code is wrong. > > > Yes of course you are right; and that's what we meant. What we meant > > was that the code's result must always be validated externally of the > > tool. > > Ok, good. > > > Mika will simply ask the question "given these inputs, are those > > expected outputs?". > > I suggest you emphasize this point on your website. > > If a website describes a tool that claims to "automatically generate > tests", I stop reading, since I know that's a bogus claim. > > I would consider a tool that "helps identify all required test cases". > > -- > -- Stephe Stephen, it depends what you call a test. Formally, Mika does generate test inputs automatically to achieve full coverage of the code under test: that is not a bogus claim. Tests cases on the other hand cannot be generated from code alone: a test case includes test inputs and expected output according to the specification or some oracle. Mika can help in this process too but require human/oracle validation (once per tests) of the outputs. We not feel that the information on our website is misleading. We are however in the process of developing better user documentation, training and support. Hope this helps. Regards. The Midoan Team.