From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 10d15b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid10d15b,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 1094ba,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1094ba,public X-Google-Thread: 111d6b,328622178ec8b832 X-Google-Attributes: gid111d6b,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,8775b19e3c68a5dc X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,a03ae7f4e53958e1 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public From: nospam@somewhere.ia.us (Robert S. White) Subject: Re: Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? Date: 1998/01/30 Message-ID: <6arori$jne1@odie.mcleod.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 320483297 References: <67et6o$dql@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <67ktrg$ibk@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <883319809snz@genesis.demon.co.uk> <68bt2p$d48@lotho.delphi.com> <34a991f0.2379476@news.diac.com> <68dm0i$brv1@news.fiberlink.net> <01bd198f$4050d960$68c8b5cc@dhite.unicomp.net> <34B71B71.1EFDCAD8@ix.netcom.com> <34B8DC0F.BA0554DB@acm.org> <01bd1ebd$8580b9a0$b2684bc2@xzSys> <34BA520B.534F@mail.state.wi.us> <6alu5l$onm$1@owl.slip.net> <01bd2c2a$69b107a0$9f684bc2@xzSys> <01bd2c45$f7ff6f40$7261b693@HP5079Q> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Organization: ... Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.misc,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.fortran,comp.lang.cobol,comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.ada Date: 1998-01-30T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article , gwinn@res.ray.com says... ... snipped (good stuff) ... >> Or maybe its just caring to read a new book every now and then. I'm an >> engineer self-taught in OO, and I can run rings around most programmers. >> (Although, not of course someone like yourself who follows these >> newsgroups. If you are reading this, you are different from the majority of >> dead-fish.) P.S. This is too depressing to be a boast. > >I don't expect programmers to learn engineering anytime soon, but there is >one big problem I do have with most programmers -- they are ignorant of >assembly code and the internals of generated code, runtime systems, >operating systems, etc. This ignorance causes serious problems; it simply >isn't enough to know only the surface of . Some learn >these things on the job, but most don't. Wow! I may have disagreed with some of you past postings Joe, but this one I completely agree with. It is much much easier to teach or to self-instruct a competent engineer the basic principles of software engineering (not just _programming_). Engineers _must_ constantly continue to read and learn - once you stop you are instant management material (the Dilbert Principal). Successful product teams tend to have a good mixture of skills, including new CS grads, number crunching analysts, Computer Engineers and reformed EE or ME engineers doing SWE along with the token current EE and ME. It is amazing how much is in the software and how little is in the hardware (reoccurring effort) for most products these days. _____________________________________________________________________ Robert S. White -- An embedded systems software engineer e-mail reply to reverse of ( add .'s ): net mcleodusa shift2 r white