From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,4873305131bf4d94 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,4873305131bf4d94 X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: 10261c,90121986704b5776 X-Google-Attributes: gid10261c,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,4873305131bf4d94 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 1014db,4873305131bf4d94 X-Google-Attributes: gid1014db,public X-Google-Thread: 10c950,90121986704b5776 X-Google-Attributes: gid10c950,public From: kaz@helios.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku) Subject: Re: ADA and Pascal SUCK, C,C++, and Java are the only languages you need!! Date: 1997/11/07 Message-ID: <640kcp$783$1@helios.crest.nt.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 287804090 References: <34557f2b.1934172@news.mindspring.com> <63tean$rs7$1@helios.crest.nt.com> Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.pascal.ansi-iso,comp.lang.pascal.misc Date: 1997-11-07T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article , Robert Dewar wrote: >One real advantage of Ada over C is that Ada programmers tend to be at >least somewhat familiar with the Ada standard, and can be expected to >have a copy available, at least for reference purposes. The C standard >is very much less well known among C programmers (you only have to look >at some of the idiotic statements posted about C in the sizeof(int) >discussion to see how many C programmers have strange ideas about C). >Alternatively ask a roomful of Ada programmers how many have a copy of >the standard available to them and routinely reference it. You will >get essentially 100% yes response. Now ask the same question to a >roomfull of C programmers. I find this to also be true. And not only that, but some C programmers have a definitely negative reaction against standards, an attitude with is easily summarised as ``I've hacked this far without the ISO junk, nobody is going to tell me what value main() should return.'' Or: ``I know how my compiler works inside and out so don't tell me a[i] = i++ is incorrect!'' >(I know that Ada has inspired other standards groups to try to liberate >their standards), but certainly earlier, the ANSI C standard was relatively >unavailable, and expensive. Nevertheless, there is no excuse that a C programmer can have for not being familiar with at least the contents of the K&R2 text. Many are not. Also, let's not forget another reason that you haven't mentioned: a flood of incorrect textbooks produced about C. Popularity has its drawbacks. Even though the standard was reproduced (save for a missing page or two: the twit for instance forgot the page which tells you that footnotes, examples and annexes aren't part of the text of the standard) in a relatively inexpensive textbook known as _The Annotated ANSI C Standard_, due to the author's inane annotations, the book has probably done more damage than good. >Another reason is the culture and circumstances. People tend to have learned >C informally, and figure they know it without need to reference a standard. >Indeed I often meet C programmers who don't really know what the ANSI >standard for C *is*, let alone having a copy of it that they have read. * Sigh * >P.S. Of course I am quite aware that substantive technical arguments can >be made regarding the superior portability of Ada over C from a language >point of view, but those arguments are well covered, and familiar. I wanted >to focus on a rather different aspect of portability, which is the role of >programmer attitude and knowledge. This is probably far more significant. C can allow all that wonderful portability, but it's no good unless the programmer understands it and gets it right. -- "In My Egotistical Opinion, most people's C programs should be indented six feet downward and covered with dirt." -- Blair P. Houghton