From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,INVALID_DATE, MSGID_SHORT,REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 (Tek) 9/28/84 based on 9/17/84; site mako.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!godot!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!tektronix!orca!mako!jans From: jans@mako.UUCP (Jan Steinman) Newsgroups: net.ai,net.lang.lisp,net.lang.ada Subject: Re: Thus spake the DoD... Message-ID: <623@mako.UUCP> Date: Tue, 5-Mar-85 11:55:10 EST Article-I.D.: mako.623 Posted: Tue Mar 5 11:55:10 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 7-Mar-85 05:17:52 EST References: <417@ssc-vax.UUCP> <676@topaz.ARPA> <6982@watdaisy.UUCP> <3223@utah-cs.UUCP> <76@daisy.UUCP> <473@ssc-vax.UUCP> Reply-To: jans@mako.UUCP (Jan Steinman) Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR Xref: watmath net.ai:2580 net.lang.lisp:359 net.lang.ada:209 Summary: List-Id: In article <473@ssc-vax.UUCP> tjj@ssc-vax.UUCP (T J Jardine) writes, quotes: >> Mr. Shebs asks for one thing that Pascal or Ada do better... (Elegance >> isn't everything. Profitability counts too.) >> -- David Schachter >> > But seriously, folks, I have yet to see a profitable Ada program, and so has > the DoD... > I really wish people wouldn't do this! All right, TJ, do you work on DOD projects? Do you use Ada? Do you have much (any) exposure to those who do? There is so much emotional outpouring when it comes to pet languages, so much of this empty "talking through one's hat". FACT: A company in Rockwood, MD (Intellimac) delivered one of the earliest Ada applications in late 1982. I don't recall the particulars (and I really hate to waste my employer's time looking up facts for people who are to lazy to keep up with the news) but I believe it was nigh 100,000 lines of code. This early, if not first, application (which was widely discussed in the trade rags) was not for rockets, bombs, or submarines. This Ada program runs CAM, accounting, personnel, virtually everything for a German bus manufacturer's automated factory in North Carolina! It performs many tasks normally asked of Lisp and COBOL. SECOND FACT: The DOD does not see any *profitable* programs, including those written in Lisp. They are a profit *sink*, not *source*. As to whether they find Ada a useful means to their various ends, years of defense industry work prior to coming to Tek qualifies me to say "Yes". Most of Ada's DOD use is classified and doesn't show up in the National Enquirer, although it's presence is well documented in the major DOD trade rags. > Sorry for the length, but I got stuck on my soap box again! > Before you get up on your soapbox and do some more uninformed spouting off, call Ralph Crafts (VP Marketing, Intellimac) 301/984-8000. I don't have anything in general against Lisp, Pascal, or any other language. I do take dim view of those who have a chip on their shoulder over make up fairy tales to support their stand! -- :::::: Jan Steinman Box 1000, MS 61-161 (w)503/685-2843 :::::: :::::: tektronix!tekecs!jans Wilsonville, OR 97070 (h)503/657-7703 ::::::