From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 107d55,c7b637f8b783b7c X-Google-Attributes: gid107d55,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,c7b637f8b783b7c X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 109fba,c7b637f8b783b7c X-Google-Attributes: gid109fba,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,c7b637f8b783b7c X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,c7b637f8b783b7c X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,c7b637f8b783b7c X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public From: paul.johnson@gecm.com (Paul Johnson) Subject: Re: The great Java showcase (re: 2nd historic mistake) Date: 1997/08/29 Message-ID: <5u61fk$e23$5@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 268892042 References: <5tvvsj$lh2$1@news2.digex.net> <34059D8A.3F3B7FA4@brightwood.com> Organization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.java.tech,comp.lang.c++ Date: 1997-08-29T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article <34059D8A.3F3B7FA4@brightwood.com>, bretts@brightwood.com says... > >Ell wrote: >Since everyone is trying to give me a technological history lesson, >let's examine that for a second. Has Burger King's or Pepsi's efforts >to defame their #1 competitors been successful? Last I checked, they >are both still very much #2. So, what we learn from this is that when >the #2 tries to dethrone the #1 by directly attacking it, it doesn't >seem to work well. Avis did rather well with "we try harder". I don't think you can read too much into this. >Now, how about an example of superior technology that won out? Take the >Japanese car manufacturers of the 80s. They were not competing in a standards war. Imagine that the Japanese cars, for some strange reason, had to be right-hand-drive models whereas the US standard is left-hand-drive (I do hope I've got that the right way round). How many cars would they have sold then? >I am interested in Java and play with it, but I am >certainly not so delusional as to think it has yet fully arrived, is >suitable for air traffic control systems, or will ever solve the world's >problems. Some people are not as enlightned as you. Also, I think you might forgive us some frustration. Eiffel has been around now for over 10 years, but is still very much a minority language. Sun come along with Java, and suddenly it makes more progress in 1 year than Eiffel has in its entire existence, despite being clearly inferior to Eiffel on every ground that Eiffel has ever been criticised on. Aaarrrggghhhh. >Yet when Eiffel proponents denounce it as a toy or a sham, >they insinuate that those who use it are not intelligent enough to make >the proper choice. So what do we do? Shut up and be smug about how we know so much better? Java, I notice, is being hyped as an improvement on C++ (which it is). Why can't we hype Eiffel as an improvement on both? Paul. -- Paul Johnson | GEC-Marconi Ltd is not responsible for my opinions. | +44 1245 242244 +-----------+-----------------------------------------+ Work: | You are lost in a twisty maze of little Home: | standards, all different.