From: rkaiser@dimensional.com (Richard Kaiser)
Subject: Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract
Date: 1997/03/19
Date: 1997-03-19T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <5gnttg$jkc$1@quasar.dimensional.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 332E8D5D.400F@calfp.co.uk
In article <332E8D5D.400F@calfp.co.uk>, Nick Leaton <nickle@calfp.co.uk> wrote:
>Richard Kaiser wrote:
>
>> The first mistake was to not put the time limit in some human readable
>> documentation, or if the time limit was documenting then it was not read.
>> Writing code so it documents itself reduces or eliminates the code
>> documentation, but this can be done in Ada, EIffel, C, C++ and even
>> assembly language and FORTRAN. These limits are part of the design
>> and belong in a Software Requirements/Requirements Verification document
>> and in the Version Description Document. And these documents must be
>> reviewed prior to reuse.
>
>The difference between writting comments that document code, and
>writting assertions is simple. The assertions will get tested, your
>comments will not. I prefer to trust the latter
But this software was Never tested. No end-to-end test with the hardware, nor
even a software only simulation. If the testing is not performed assertions
will not be executed to detect a problem. With proper testing the simulated
flight would have failed with or without the assertions.
>> >2) Design. Writting assertions makes design easier. This is a personal
>> >observation and harder to justify. I find being clear about what
>> >something does helps clear up what I am doing. Having complex
>> >preconditions is not a good idea, again you probably don't have the
>> >right structure.
>>
>> The code is going to say "I am not in my original application and may or
>> will fail?" Assertions are only going to catch problems if there is:
>>
>
>No, the code does what it is contracted to do. If you break the
>contract, it raises an exception.
But software testing "never re-read the contract".
Why is Eiffel saying assertions are a new tool? C (and now C++) have been
using #include <assert.h> for years? Software engineers have been using
assert macros to verify program limits are not exceeded.
Richard Kaiser
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1997-03-19 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 254+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1997-03-15 0:00 Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Jon S Anthony
[not found] ` <tz8ohcjv7cc.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-16 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert Dewar
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was " Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Trust but verify " Robert S. White
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robb Nebbe
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-07 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
[not found] ` <199703190839.JAA02652@stormbringer.irisa.fr>
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war " Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Roger T.
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Wolfgang Gellerich
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John L. Ahrens
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Irvine
[not found] ` <tz8913l930b.fsf_-_@aimnet.com>
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war Roedy Green
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Gavin Collings
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Paul Johnson
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Enrico Facchin - Sartori E.T.
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was " Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Kent Tong
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Ranan Fraer
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-18 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-04-02 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Jonathan Egre'
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Jan Galkowski
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-04-01 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-04-02 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John the Hamster
[not found] ` <tz8g1xtzx9y.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Laurent Moussault
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Programming language fanaticism! Louis Bastarache
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Steve Furlong
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-27 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-29 0:00 ` Nick S Bensema
1997-03-30 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-21 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-24 0:00 ` FUD (Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Alexander Anderson
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Anders Pytte
[not found] ` <3335BC24.13728473@eiffel.com>
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-01 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` John Hogg
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] ` <E7ox17.MKx@syd.csa.com.au>
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser [this message]
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Fergus Henderson
1997-03-17 0:00 ` John McCabe
[not found] ` <tz8n2s1hrdc.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Niall Cooling
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Chris Beer
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Derek Clarke
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-07 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-09 0:00 ` Gavin Collings
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-04 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Robin Rosenberg
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Thomas Beale
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-21 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Nigel Tzeng
1997-03-23 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-17 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-18 0:00 ` John McCabe
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ray McVay
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-03-29 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-30 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Doctorb
1997-04-08 0:00 ` Ron Crocker
1997-04-11 0:00 ` Richard Riehle
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ulrich Windl
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Eric M. Boyd
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
[not found] ` <3345cd60.2092398@news.sydney.apana.org.au>
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Ariane-5 crash , Eiffel and Ada Nick Leaton
1997-04-03 0:00 ` Jeffrey W. Stulin
1997-04-08 0:00 ` AdaWorks
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ron Forrester
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Ron Forrester
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Tarjei Jensen
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-18 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Richard Kaiser
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Martin Tom Brown
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Paul Johnson
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Design by Contract in C++ (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Anders Pytte
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Karel Th�nissen
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Nick Leaton
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-20 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Nick Leaton
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Please do not start a language war (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-23 0:00 ` "Paul E. Bennett"
[not found] ` <tz8sp1qiywm.fsf@aimnet.com>
1997-03-21 0:00 ` ae59
1997-03-21 0:00 ` Ulrich Windl
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Steve Furlong
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Simulating Eiffel-style assertions (was: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Anders Pytte
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Wolfgang Reddig
1997-03-29 0:00 ` How old time languages survive EJon
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Stuart Yeates
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Matt Kennel (Remove 'nospam' to reply)
1997-03-22 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-23 0:00 ` Dale Stanbrough
[not found] ` <3335E18E.33590565@eiffel.com>
1997-03-23 0:00 ` FUD (Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` William Grosso
1997-03-24 0:00 ` William Clodius
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Brad Appleton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robert Dewar
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Manners (was Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract) Bertrand Meyer
1997-03-25 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) William Clodius
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Robb Nebbe
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Nick Leaton
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-24 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-04-06 0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ariane-5: can you clarify? (Re: Please do not start a language war) Ken Garlington
1997-03-25 0:00 ` David Starr
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Jon S Anthony
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-26 0:00 ` Alexander Anderson
1997-03-27 0:00 ` Trust but verify (was " Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-03-28 0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-03-31 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-03-19 0:00 ` Chris Brand
1997-03-23 0:00 ` the one and only real true kibo
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-03-17 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-20 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-25 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
1997-03-24 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-03-27 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-04-03 0:00 Adrian B.Y. Hoe
1997-04-05 0:00 ` Nick Roberts
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